Bike won't start 150 miles after fuel filter mod!

[zbodan]

So last week I decided to tackle the fuel filter mod and successfully completed it, fueled up, and went riding several times without problems. After my second fill-up, she fired up and I rode off to work directly from the pump. I killed the engine after the approx. 13 mile ride to work and she sat for several hours while I was working. When I tried to start up the bike in extreme humidity, the starter and engine would turn over just fine, but there was no combustion to be found.

In my fuel mod, I ended up using fuel line that wasn't rated to be completely submerged in gasoline (I knew that line would eventually fail, but I planned on replacing that line very soon and was using the non-rated line during the mean time until I found the correct FI hose). I don't see how that hose could fail so quickly.

So far I have come to the conclusion that the bike is not getting fuel for some reason. I sprayed starting fluid into the air intake and it fired up after a cycle, ran for 1-3 seconds, then died from a seemingly lack of fuel.

Right now, I can not figure out what is restricting the fuel. What could have happened that allowed me to put 150 miles on the odometer before refusing to start?

2004 R1150R with external fuel mod - no leaks to be found

[macx]

That is a puzzler to be sure.

I'd imagine the inside of your tank is clean so doing the mod didn't disturb or knock any crud
loose to plug the filter.

I'd agree in thinking that non-efi hose shouldn't have failed that quickly. Besides, the replacement
hose is on the pressure side of the pump so collapse shouldn't be an issue either, say from going
soft or something like that.

I guess one way you could maybe make absolutely positively sure you're not getting fuel would be
to pull out an injector, leave it hooked up, and try starting. Without looking, I believe there are
both signal and ground wires hooked to the injector so it doesn't have to be grounded so should
continue to function. If you're getting fuel I'd think you'd see a fine short spray if there's fuel
pressure there. Of course point it well away from the engine, and maybe onto a piece of cardboard or
something to show a wet spot if there's fuel coming out.

That, indeed, is a head scratcher!

Good luck, when you do get it figured out be sure to post your findings.

EDIT: Just thought of one thing - someone else recently posted about a sudden lack of fuel
after having a Hall Sensor go out and having the bike into the dealership to repair. After lots
of frustration, it was discovered (but not fully admitted) that when the QD's were reconnected,
that one of them (must have been the pressure side) wasn't totally fully reconnected, altho it
appeared to be, and someone else pointed out that without it being fully connected the internal
check ball or whatever it is wouldn't have been released - that might be a possibility that it was
on the verge between fully and not quite fully connected and the vibrations eventually resulted in
that QD internal check ball closing. Hope it's that simple!

[boxermania]

zbodan

You have committed a sin......fuel rated hoses, along with the EFI ratevariants have two basic requirements:

1) They are not affected by the fuel, softened, swelled, etc
2) They can handle the higher pressures encountered in such systems, ~ 90 psi in our case.

So, I wil venture to say that in your case

The hose split or was affected by the uel, or if you didn't use the FI clamps it has slipped off the line.

In any event, the tank is coming out and please use the correct hose and clamps.

Good luck

[zbodan]

Thanks for the advice and information, macx and boxermania.

I did indeed know that I was doing something I shouldn't, but I never expected that it would turn around and bite me so quickly!

It turned out that the hose became completely detached from the fuel pump. I ended up taking the tank off and brought it home to work on: opened it up, reconnected the hose, brought the tank back, and finally put it back and rode the bike home.

When I was doing the fuel filter mod, I checked all of my local auto part stores (Autozone, Advanced Auto Parts, and NAPA) and no one had the hose I needed. Perhaps I should make sure I get all of the correct parts before I start a project.

Thanks again for the timely responses!

[Dr. Strangelove]

just as an addendum to this as it somewhat relates to my thread of the same mod...

R6 hose, sold to me as "Fuel injection hose" has swelled and softened noticeably as the external lines and they smell like gasoline with no obvious leak. It will be replaced.

Inside my tank I replaced the filter with a length of 3/8" copper tubing utilizing the original hoses.

It appears that Gates is the only manufacturer of the necessary hose and it is available at O-Reilly's and NAPA.

5/16" is just a smidge under 8mm (7.9375mm) in case that's important.

The rating needed for external is R9 @ $22/foot. NAPA had it in stock

The rating needed for internal (I hope you didn't throw yours away) is R10 @ $100/foot. Not in stock.

The above is what I have gleaned from google searches, so if anyone has anything further to add or to correct, please chime in.

This is a common problem, ie using the wrong rated hose, and discussions can be found on such varied sites as RV forums, to hot Mustang forums, to Ducati forums, and on ADVrider.

I called the local BMW auto dealer, the Mercedes dealer and the Acura dealer and none had any of the above on a spool and they all referred me to NAPA, but I think just to get me off the phone.

I have not priced replacemnt hose from the BMW m/c dealers, but will.

Right now I am coming to terms about getting the R9 from NAPA vs the BMW OEM hose, not knowing the cost. Someone posted that the OEM hose was "denser" for whatever that's worth, but the inference would be stronger????? Don't know.

When I get the OEM price I'll post it.

I am really glad I did this mod (so far), but it has been the hardest I have done just from a frustration level.

JOhn

[Dr. Strangelove]

I went to the A&S cycles catalog and best I can tell is that

16 12 1 180 409
is the part number for the fuel line; someone please correct me if I am wrong.

This is 8x13 fuel hose. Prob means 8mm int diameter and 13mm outside diameter.

Did a search on that part number and it appears to be a fuel line for the 3 series BMW and the 2002 and old 5 series. Pricing is under $10 for a meter.

http://www.bimmerspecialist.com/usa/par ... nAodBXALlQ#

at Chicago BMW it is
http://www.chicagobmwmotorcycle.com/sto ... 09&x=0&y=0
and over $21

could it be?

[zbodan]

https://www.clubrsx.com/cr/GTE-27093.html

That is a foot of 5/16" 100 PSI Gates submersible FI hose - $22.00.

It is rated as R10 or better.

Free shipping too!

Edit: Also, as a reference to the cost of R9 hose, I got some at O'Reilly's @ $6 per foot, 180 PSI.

[Dr. Strangelove]

That's a pretty big difference 7 vs 22, yet that is the price that NAPA gave me yesterday on the R9 5/16" hose. And that is the price on the O Reilly website.
The brand on the OReilly site is Gates and on the NAPA site is Altrom. Some of the Altrom hoses are stamped "BMW," but does that refer to a code or the marque?

So, the question is: Are all R9s created equally? As you've found, this is not a job you want to do again.

That price you have on the R10 is as a part, I guess, for an RSX. That's what I was trying to find by calling the auto dealerships, but struck out.
Thanks for the info and good luck.

John