Worn out throttle body after 30K miles / Techlusion is junk?

[BoxerSteve]

Sorry for the dual subjects but they are kind of related in this case.

My '02 R1150R (30.5K miles) has been surging for a while now despite all efforts to cure it. It's not terrible but it is annoying and I'd sure like to make it stop.

I've adjusted the valves, synced the TB's several times, changed the air filter, changed the spark plugs, fuel injector o-rings, everything I could think of, I did. Still surging. Then I took it to my local BMW boutique for a TB sync after coming to the conclusion that my 20 year old carb stix may no longer be accurate. It ran decent after the mechanic at the local BMW boutique worked on it, for about 50 miles. Then it went right back to surging.

Then I bought a Techlusion R259 from an R1150R.org member and installed it. It seemed better for a little while but then started surging again.

Then I took it to Pete at Bavarian Motorcycles West in Englewood to see if he could work any magic. I had noticed a tapping sound coming from the right hand TB just off idle and I pointed that out to him. The butterfly shaft seems a bit loose compared to the LH one. He said the TB is worn out and should be replaced, and that they wear out quickly "when ridden in city traffic a lot".

I am a bit shocked that the TB would be worn out after only 30K miles. Anyone else had that problem? I've heard they do wear out but usually not until 60 to 70K miles.

Then after Pete noticed I had the Techlusion installed, he refused to work on my bike, he said "they are junk". This was after I made an appointment with him two weeks in advance and special arrangements to drop the bike off, etc. Wasted most of the afternoon on the trip to his shop for nothing.

Pete apparently has so much business it's no big deal to turn customers away, must be nice!

Opinions on the Techlusion? What do you guys think of them? I'm debating whether to take mine back off or not; if replacing the TB takes care of the surging, the Techlusion will probably be coming back off.

[owldaddy]

Opinions on the Techlusion? What do you guys think of them?

I'm keeping mine, it works awesome. I know some folks think that if you keep the bike tuned up, you don't need them. I kept my RR tuned up, but it never ran as well as it does now.

[boxermania]

First of all if BMW Tech makes a statement, positive or negative, regarding an aftermarket add-on I would ask him to explain, personally, I doubt he knows how the Techlusion works, let alone his ability to troubleshoot, hence his reticence to work on the bike. Furthermore, if the TB shaft is indeed worn that has nothing to do with if the bike is fitted with a Techlusion. People like Pete, IMO, do not represent knowledgeable BMW techs.

Surging manifests itself under the following conditions (more to less common)

Improper state of engine tune, primarily the synchronization of the TB’s.
Operating the engine at a slow road speed in too high a gear
Air leaks in the TB to head phenolic adapter, the additional air leans the A/F ratio inducing the surging.

Air leaks can be detected by spraying WD-40 around the suspect parts and see if the engine speed changes, this applies equally to the TB shaft bushings.

If this doesn’t work for you consider the following:

There have been some reports of wear in the TB’s shaft bushings, but these have been few and far between, additionally there is a seal fitted on the outside of the bushing to prevent the ingress of dirt/contamination and it also acts as an air barrier. I don’t know if your bushings are worn, or better yet, if their wear has any relation to the surging you are experiencing, however, it is easy to determine if the bushings are indeed worn by comparing the free movement (up/down) of the shaft inside the bushing. Best way to go about it is to remove both TB’s and check one against the other. One interesting note, both TB’s see the same service, so if the bushings in one are worn, it stands to reason that the other should be worn as well.

Last but not least, the Techlusion is a very simple and effective device to alleviate the issues related with engine surging as experienced in the Boxer engines. In essence, it piggybacks a fraction of a millisecond onto the pulse signal from the engine ECU to the fuel injector, allowing the fuel injector to remain open slightly longer and add a tiny bit more fuel. This is done alone or in conjunction with the O2 sensor input and they do work well with the Boxer engines as indicated by owldaddy.

Good luck and keep us posted

[jas]

I would follow boxermania’s advise and hunt for an air leak, especially near the manifolds. The cost for replacement was around $45 each and well worth it. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20709

[BoxerSteve]

Sorry to bump an old thread but I wanted to follow up on this.

I couldn't find any air leaks using the method suggested by Boxermania.

I replaced my fuel filter last weekend, even though it had not been 25,000 miles since the last time. It seemed to have a fair amount of crap in it despite the fact that I had replaced it not long after I bought the bike, so had been in there for a bit over two years/12K. I also replaced both (vent and whatever that other one is, comes from the canister to some valve-type thingie) hoses in the tank, and the hose clamps with screw-type ones.

The surging is definitely better! Not totally gone, but quite a bit better. Next I will try a good TB sync to see if it gets even better.

Still have the Techlusion installed too, never did replace the TB with the supposedly worn out shaft. I'm happy, it's running pretty decent right now! Too bad winter will soon make it too cold to ride much.