Surge shows up

Topics related to the ownership, maintenance, equipping, operation, and riding of the R1150R.

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racurley
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Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:45 pm

Let me see if I can avoid the disappearing post epidemic. I was having the rattling TB issue so I got the repair kit from Beemer Boneyard, the Dan Cata one. When I tried to fix it a while ago, I couldn’t get the liners out so I just bought a used TB from eBay. Of course, it rattled too. So, I took the original one to a machine shop and they fixed me up very quickly for like $35. Should have done that the first time. Installed the new butterfly and everything and put the refurbished TB back on. This is the RH one. While I was at it, I adjusted the valve clearances and replaced the spark plugs even though they weren’t that old. I did the TB sync following detailed instructions from one of CycleBob’s posts. I’ve done this several times before and believe I got a good sync at multiple RPM’s.

Bike runs smoothly except for a couple of issues now. I’m getting a surge at lower RPMs, like below 3,000. Also, idle seems off. It idles around 1,100 - 1,200 but sometimes drops and will even cut off. I have never had either of these issues before. I have an ‘03 single spark.

Here’s what I’ve done so far: rechecked the valve clearance - spot on; re-sync’d the TB’s - spot on at idle and at around 2,500 RPM; reinstalled the original spark plugs - both are the Autolites 3923 double platinum with the gap set at 0.0314 (or close enough to that). The throttle cable is seated correctly - I used the barrel adjuster to sync the TB at higher revs. I put some Sea Foam in a tank of fresh gas but I don’t think this is the problem.

Good news is the TB rebuild kit did the trick and removed the irritating clacking noise. Significantly quieter engine now.

Any thoughts on the surging and idle issues?

Andy
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!

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Sunbeemer
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby Sunbeemer » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:16 pm

I think I would check for air leaks on the cylinder-head side of the throttle body, and at the vacuum nibs on its underside.
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Buckster
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby Buckster » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:06 am

I would check for air leaks too. I had an issue a few years back. At idle, the RPM's would drop for a second and then come back up to normal. If it rained, it would cut out completely at idle. It ended up being one of the coils was bad or going bad. I replaced both and has been fine since. I also have an 03 with single spark.
Good luck!
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swamper
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby swamper » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:43 am

The Autolite Plugs I've found are best being NON Platinum, just the cheap standard one.
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sweatmark
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby sweatmark » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:12 pm

I haven't played in the throttle body/TPS sandbox, but have been watching the following ADV thread as food for thought.. it's another of Roger's in-depth oilhead topic threads:

https://advrider.com/f/threads/tps-alignment-idle-speed-adjustment-beyond-zero-zero.996719/

Just wondering if the comprehensive BMW method for TB/TPS setup might be helpful in your case.
Now: Rockster2, S1000R, K1300S
Then: R850R, R1100R, R1150R, Rockster1, R1200C, F800S, etc.

racurley
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:08 pm

That is one in depth write-up sweatmark. I will need more time to study it. I think it's helpful in that it outlines many of the things that go into making this thing fire.

I re-seated the TB yesterday to try to address any possible leakage. Went for a longish ride in the lovely 75 degree weather we are enjoying. Still getting the surging below 3,000 RPM in most gears. It's not terrible but disconcerting trying to make slow speed manoevers. It seemed to hold idle ok, particularly when warmed up.

I think next up may be changing out the spark plugs to the basic ones but I don't hold much hope with this since it had been running fine on the ones in it.

One interesting aspect I hadn't mentioned before is that the BBS's are, I believe, adjusted at different points with the left one out a bit more than the right. I started at about 1.5 turns open and then adjusted both out a bit to get the idle right. Then, I primarily used the RH BBS to balance on the manometer. When I increased the RPM, I balanced it with the throttle cable adjuster on the right TB. Hmmmm
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!

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Sunbeemer
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby Sunbeemer » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:46 pm

Did you reset the Motronic? Just a thought that maybe it's still operating with the old TB's fuel map...
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racurley
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:48 pm

Well, I did the procedure where you turn the key to on then fully open and close the throttle 2-3 times. I did not pull the number 5 fuse for 5-10 minutes beforehand though. Maybe will try that.
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!

racurley
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:37 pm

Here's a short video showing what it is doing at idle following the motronic reset.

https://youtu.be/fzRaQO7XRPI
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!

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Buckster
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby Buckster » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:06 am

That's exactly what mine was doing. I would change the coils. I think I got them from BBY.
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby dark_knight87 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:16 am

I am currently experiencing a similar issue but not as bad as in the video - I have a twin spark and I reckon it is the coil up under the fuel tank feeding the lower set of plugs (I have replaced the stick coils several times and I am currently running Beru ones). I have not changed the coil as yet but plan to and if I can source some new plug leads I will replace them at the same time.

Regards,
Russ

racurley
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:19 pm

Buckster wrote:That's exactly what mine was doing. I would change the coils. I think I got them from BBY.


So, did you get a used set from BBY?

I've so missed taking the tank off again. Looking forward to it. Really.
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!

racurley
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:26 pm

I was googling for ignition coils and ran across this. I wonder if it would work?

https://www.motorcycleid.com/dynatek/dyna-coil-bracket-mpn-dcb-1.html?singleid=392703776&url=124002914
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!

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Buckster
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby Buckster » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:16 am

The set I bought was new.
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racurley
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:53 am

I was thinking that used wasn't such a good idea. I found a Beru coil for single sparks for $99 plus shipping at Euro Motoelectrics in Denver. Will give that a go.
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!

racurley
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:01 pm

So, new ignition coils installed. I don't think it solved the problem. Still some surging but the missing seems maybe better. So, maybe I will replace the spark plug lines now. Any other ideas?
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!

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Buckster
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby Buckster » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:23 am

I guess I should have been more specific when I said coils. The spark plug coils/wires are what I replaced to fix my problem.
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racurley
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Re: Surge shows up

Postby racurley » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:06 pm

Ah ha! I was thinking I should have just gone ahead and ordered and installed those while I was in there. We'll, hope that will fix it because I'm really not enjoying the surging. Will need to do this after I get back from some travel though.
2003 R1150R
1999 Yamaha VStar 650 Classic (sold)
1991 Honda Nighthawk CB250 !!


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