What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

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Photoguy
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What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Photoguy »

OK...here goes.

I'm debating the advantages (if any) of switching to a synthetic oil in my 02 1150R with 10K miles. My last trip to a BMW dealer, I picked up 4 qts assuming that my new-to-me bike had already gone down the synthetic road. Well, further research (a call to the previous owners dealership) and I find that it's still using regular old prehistoric lubrication (as I'm told it should be considering the mileage)

(part of my confusion was just coming off of a recent VW turbo re-build as a result of sludge build up that was related to a regular/synth oil issue)...but I digress.

So, I currently have 4 quarts of very expen$ive BMW synthetic oil sitting in the garage wondering what I should do.

As I understand it, the advantages to synth are longer oil change intervals (?). Typically, I do an oil change before setting the bike up for the long cold winters here in the Northeast, always having believed that old oil is bad oil (acid content) and from a practical standpoint, I don't put that many miles on it during the good weather.

So, in a nutshell:

1. Should I simply return the synth and use 'regular' oil forever? Or if not forever, at least until i start to put more annual miles on the bike? (have gotten some good oil choices here in reading prior threads).

2. Save the synth for the future (12K mile mark) and just do a regular change this season?

3. Are there any advantages to making the synth change and not doing my annual-pre-storage oil change? IOW, switching to synth now and doing the next change 6K miles from now (and don't worry about the winter lay-up).

^Thanks for your wisdom...
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by towerworker »

Synthetic vs. dino have been debated here endless times and with endless opinions. Opinions are like backsides-----everyone has one.

I won't try to try to offer an educated opinion or great words of wisdom as I don't have either. I will tell you what I do and you can take that for what it's worth.

I run Castrol GTX 20/50 and have since January of 2003 when I bought my first R, a 2003. I put 42k on it in 4 years and totaled it in an accident with 0 engine problems. I currently have an 04 with 27K (It had 17K when I bought it last Dec) Again I run Castrol. I intend to continue running Castrol and I change oil and filter every 3K. I go to 10/40 during the winter as I like to ride all year long here in Va.

I run Lucas 80/90 weight Heavy Duty gear oil in the tranny and FD. And I change that with each oil change as well. ( I just started doing that last oil change as a small effort to keep my FD intact) I figure if Lucas is good for heavy trucks then it's good for a little motorcycle. Both oils are dino - not synthetic.

My 2 cents worth.

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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Photoguy »

Thanks for the opinion Wayne.

I've read some of the oil posts here and elsewhere...there's no shortages of opinions!

I'm still left wondering though...specifically for a guy like me that only rides a few thousand miles in the summer and does a fresh oil change prior to storage...did I negate any benefits of synthetic (specifically longer oil change intervals)?

...or is my pre-storage oil changes even necessary? And if it isn't, the synthetic (longer) intervals have some cost/ratio benefits.

Presumeably, I can's really go wrong with conventional oils and that would be the route I would take were it not for the fact that I mistakengly bought the synthetic...and if it weren's so freakin' expensive i'd simply put it in the lawn mower!
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by towerworker »

You didn't say where in the country you live and that may be a factor. Many people say one of the advantages of synthetic oil is it's ability to not break down under very high engine temperatures like you would encounter in hot climates or if you do alot of city stop and go riding. Those benefits may make the increased cost worthwhile. For me I run all year round but I avoid any unnecessary traffic especially if it's very hot. If you park your ride during the winter then it would be to your advantage to have fresh oil in the crankcase when riding season starts. Many authorities like CycleRob, MikeCam and Boxermania will tell you of the dangers of condensation building up in the engine after short rides where the water vapor does not get a chance to burn off after short rides. Probably a short ride and then letting the bike sit for a long period would do more damage in the long term.

I am 53 and have been in the habit of 3K oil and filter changes since I was 16. One of the habits my Dad taught me and It will always stick with me. I figure oil and filters are cheap and my labor costs $0. Besides that it keeps me out of the pool halls and bars!

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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Photoguy »

Thajnks again Wayne.

I'm in the Northeast...Many cold months of no riding at all.

You've confirmed what I had suspected. that it's better to do more frequent and end-of-riding season oil changes than for me to consider one oil change every 3 years with my current riding habits, letting the bike sit for extended periods in between.

thanks again-

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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by webmost »

Here's three more dumb oil questions:

First, you write: "As I understand it, the advantages to synth are longer oil change intervals..." OK. But the oil filter also needs changed too. So until someone figures out how to swap filters keeping the same dirty old oil, tell me, where's the advantage?

Second, at the rate you ride this machine what do you care how many miles it lasts? Are you ever going to wear it out?

Finally, down the road here at Bob's BMW is an old airhead on display which some old feller put about 670 thousand miles on without ever rebuilding the top end. Then he died. Does it really matter how much longer this machine may have lasted with synthetic oil?

It's just so much more fun to ride than worry.
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by CycleRob »

Photoguy,

An 02 model with 10K miles isn't a lot of riding. If you are not making many hour plus rides, your oil could be too toxic to go thru the Winter, like you rightfully deduced. My inner circle friend Towerworker has a good economics plan for you . . . Castrol GTX 20/50. You can get it at Wal*Mart for less than 1/3rd the cost of the BMW synth oil and it will protect your engine just fine, as long as you don't routinely overheat the engine in city traffic. If you're making less than 2,000 miles a season, you could even drain (overnite) and reuse the practically unused and relatively expensive BMW oil filter, unless you need the money for the pool halls and bars.

On changing the oil everyone should observe one very important requirement. The engine must be really hot so the thermostat remains open for the oil coolers to drain. You can accomplish that even in cold weather if the last 5 miles or so from home is consistently above 4,000 RPM in the lower gears. Since I go the full 6,000 miles for the change interval, I take it one step further. I unhook the top front rubber cooler hose, hook on my own hose to the radiator's brass spout and gently blow shop air in it to expell ALL the trapped oil. It even expels the stagnant pool waiting near the crankcase oil drain hole. The amount of extra oil expelled is about 1/2 a coffee mug, but I feel SO much better that it wasn't added to the new oil -and- that the coolers had a cleansing air enema. :shock:

On switching to synthetic, the changeover should happen when the engine is broken in -or- when it dramatically stops using oil. You WILL notice when it happens. On my conservatively ridden bike it was around 17K miles, so the 18K change was to full synthetic. It may never have broken in had I not hooked up weekend rides with two Championship Cup Series (CCS) Amateur Racers on the backroads of Northern NJ & upstate NY. We managed the green blurr tours consisting of several all day rides with no crashes, no handcuffs, no bikes impounded and 1 speeding ticket. Great memories!!

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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Photoguy »

Oh, I'm not worried...didn't mean to imply that.

My concern was more of a practical one having as much to do with trying to schedule a return trip to bring back the synthetic which I bought than anything else. When i bought it, I'd just assumed it was already in the bike. Wasn't until after the purchase that i realized it wasn't.

And since I do an annual pre-storage change anyway, I didn't know if I was overlooking some benefits/downside to using one type of oil vs another.

Thanks Rob. Hadn't considered the pool hall and bars part of the equation, but now that you mention it...
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by boxermania »

Just to add a little more thought to towerworker and CycleRob (the mouth of the South, yes, you know what I mean) there are some advantages to the Syn oil, higher temp breakdown, less friction, longer time between changes at of course the price increase.

However, the key issue in your case is if you are still using oil between changes, something like 1/2 Q +, if so the rings are not fully seated and changing to the Syn would be a moot point.

In your case and based on the use of the bike, the syn might be a better solution and you can run it for two seasons.

That's just my 2 cents....let the tar and feathering begin.......
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Photoguy »

good points, and well taken.


Your post really cut to the heart of my original question...Assuming that for *my* circumstances, the real benefit to using the synth is longer oil change intervals. And that would be enough of a deciding factor were it not for the fact that I store the bike for 6 cold months.

The suggestion of being able to use the same oil for 2 riding seasons is appealing on the surface...but what are your thoughts on leaving the oil in the bike through storage (presuming that's what you meant)? Otherwise to drain and re-use, I might just as well use regular oil instead.


And FWIW, my considerations here aren't to debate the differences between the two oils. My attitude is "Oil, Schmoil..." What it boils down to me is wondering if a trip back to Max's BMW is in order to make an exchange. :-k
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Arbee »

Photoguy wrote: So, I currently have 4 quarts of very expen$ive BMW synthetic oil sitting in the garage wondering what I should do.
Sell it to your mates who like to race around tracks on their Japanese Sportbikes at 15500 RPM

Seriously, synthetic oil is completely unnecessary in a Boxer engine and will do more harm than good
with seal permeation, i often laugh when i see Mobil 1 used on Boxers.

Mobil 1 was developed for use in JT8D jet engines in the CSD's (constant speed drive) which drive the main generators

If you believe the Boxer is in the same class as a Jet engine you have my blessings... :mrgreen:
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Photoguy »

Thanks for weighing in!

Off to Max's I go (to return the oil). #-o
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by marine dad »

let me ask a few more questions if i may. i've had my '02 1150r for a little over 2 weeks now. it had 12,721 miles when i got it, and the 12,000 mile service was performed a few months ago with the oil change using bmw regular 20/50 oil.
it now has almost 15,000 miles with no oil use at all that i can tell. i will ride all winter, so what oil should i use for average winter temps of around 45 degrees?
( 30 degrees am, 50-55 degrees pm ) my friend who thankfully talked me into buying a beemer, regularly used bmw 20/50 all year for 100,000 miles, and when he went into the top end for a rebuild it looked great. i am counting on this bike lasting quite a while, so help me out.
thanks,
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Arbee »

10W40 is normal grade motorcycle oil.
20W50 is more suited to very well used engines in a warm/hot climate. :mrgreen:
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by towerworker »

10W40 winter

20W50 summer

I changed mine to 10W40 last winter after it wouldn't start on a 2 degree morning. It started the morning before at 7 degrees (but it didn't really want to)
After dumping it on some ice in January and breaking my leg I have revised my cold weather riding habits.

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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by def38 »

Oil is worn out once any of the following have occurred;

1- TBN is at or below 3.
2- Viscosity has moved out of range.
3- Wear metals have escalated.

Oh and by the way, Mobil1 15w-50 is not for jet turbines...it is clearly marked with an API rating for use in automotive, spark ignition, gas engines.

For conditions where the engine is short hauled, is used only intermittently or not thoroughly warmed to a full heat cycle, this is considered severe service. As a result, oil chould be changed more frequently than for routine use.

Using the BMW brand synthetic stuff is fine but expensive. I would use the Castrol 20w-50 GTX until your riding habits change. Synthetic in this case is too costly and without benefit.
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by machew01 »

This thread isn't required reading, is it?

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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Photoguy »

There *will* be a quiz.

:badgrin:
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by Arbee »

Discussing the pro's and cons of oil is like discussing Politics & Religion, and there is usually no winners.
Machew, no one is bending your arm making you read this stuff. 8)
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Re: What's a m/c forum without another dumb oil question???

Post by azellner »

[quote="Photoguy"]
(part of my confusion was just coming off of a recent VW turbo re-build as a result of sludge build up that was related to a regular/synth oil issue)

I feel your pain with the VW... we had one clog with sludge at 60k, fought VW and they paid for the motor swap. Then we sold the car as other issues kept coming up.

But back the the german vehicle that i still own... Why not split the diffrence? I run Semi-synthetic blend in my '02R... makes me feel like I care but not at full price.
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