Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Topics related to the ownership, maintenance, equipping, operation, and riding of the R1150R.

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two wheel tango
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Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby two wheel tango » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:59 pm

Bike won't idle - Need some help. Leave on Tuesday for a cross country haul.

2004 R1150R, 86K. Had a bit of a seeepage on left side throttle body. Where the rubber gasket meets the engine block. Opened up the intake tract, cleaned and reassembled. Figured I do the other side as well. Bike ran ok but couldn't get a balance at idle using a twinmax - Pulling heavily to one side. Could only get a balance with a difference of more than 3 turns on the idle screws and by then the idle is over 1.5K rpm.

Figured there was an air leak. So went over everything and tightened things up. Now I can't get the bike to hold an idle at any number of turns of the idle screws!

All cables properly seated. Enough slack on the cables at the butterfly valve. Backed off adjusters at the throttle grip and fast idle. Double checked TPS voltage... 0.36V. Bike will run on fast idle, and when on throttle but just won't idle. Did a Motronic reset and tried again, no joy.

Please help. Out of ideas.

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jcridge
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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby jcridge » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:21 pm

Did you get gunk in the BBS passage when cleaning the T/B? I had this happen to a "K" once, cleaned the passages and it was go to go.

You may already know this. but the the answer is in front of you, you just need to back track to where it was before. Check for vacuum leak, but it would have to be a large one to make the difference you are talking about. Spark-plugs fouled from cleaning the T/B?

Was the seepage from the oil fill plug?

You should get a few more ideas as people chime in,

John

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jas
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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby jas » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:24 pm

I had a similiar issue, if you search my posts in the Rockster forum you'll find it. I ran out of ideas as to pulling from one side, manometer never equalling out, etc. Took it to a mechanic that knows these bikes and found the the manifolds were warped, which is very common for higher mileage bikes, just not something many dealers discuss or look at. The manifolds I am refering to are between the throttle bodies and cylinders. I think that this is where you found the seepage, right? The only repair is to replace them at $40 per side. If this is where you are getting the air leak, buy new not used.

To test it, mix soap and water and spray on this junction whilst the bike is at idle. If there is a leak you will hear the bike start to recover.

Also, the bike is a 2004 so I assume dual/twin spark? Have you tested the primary stick coils? These are another common problem that plagues the bikes. With your mileage one could have easily given up the ghost. Search stick coil or rough idle on this site for procedures to test each side of the bike. Replacement run in the $120 range, I think, and have been updated to better withstand the heat they endure (or so they say).

Anyhow, best of luck on locating the problem but more than that, enjoy your trip.
2004 Roc.

two wheel tango
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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby two wheel tango » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:41 pm

Yes Jas, Seepage was from the rubber manifold where it meets the cylinder block. Stick coils were were swapped out about 20K miles ago.

I think I should inspect the sparkplugs as jcridge suggests. I did hear a wierd kind of electrical fizzle sound from the left side while starting up her up a few minutes back. Not able to reproduce though. Don't know what thats about either.

Hmmm... always some kind of drama a few days before a big trip :roll:

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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby two wheel tango » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:48 am

Ok. Hit the bike early this AM. Need to get this sorted out asap.

Fired the bike up first thing in the garage; only to see a large puddle of reddish/brown fluid start runnning down the engine on the right side and pooling up in copious amounts below the engine. Steam rising everywhere. Killed the engine - All kinds of thoughts running through my head in that split second - Figured I'd royally screwed things up this time round. Until I noticed my coffee cup lying on its side on the seat. Oh well. #-o K. Back to business.

Checked primary plugs.. dry, brown/black. Carbon fouling?

Either way had some spare plugs so swapped them out - No joy. Put a spare plug on the end of both of the stick coils, grounded to engine fins and confirmed spark on both sides.

Ran the engine on fast idle and pulled the secondary leads. On the right side no perceptible change in running. On the left side, engine stumbles/misfires and strong spark jumping from the lead. Swapped the stick coils and did the same test - Behavior stays the same on the left side.

Out of my depth here.... What do I conclude from this?

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jcridge
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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby jcridge » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:59 pm

Secondary leads? Do you mean the secondary spark-plug plug wire, or the Primary stick coil? If you removed the secondary plug wire and it stumbles, that usually indicates a bad stick coil or bad primary sparkplug, but if you swapped stick coils that sounds more like you still have gunk in the BBS air passages. The condition worsened when you cleaned the T/B, I would go back there and see what it is that you did. Don't make more of this then need be, always go back to the scene of the crime.

John

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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby revtexdave » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:19 pm

Your fuel filter sock screen may be collapsing... where the fuel pump is... fun fun.
Also, had similar issue and it was a short in the wiring when I turned the wheel hard only at slow or stopped at corner.

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WorkinMan
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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby WorkinMan » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:13 pm

As far as I know, and I'm no BMW expert, our bikes don't have idle screws. The idle is adjusted with the cables while you are synronizing the throttle bodies. If you're turning the little screws below the throttle bodies that "LOOK" like they would adjust the idle, you're just opening and closing the butterfly and making things worse. (Don't ask me how I know this...) If this is what you've done, hopefully one of the more knowlegeable people on the forum will chime in soon and tell you how to fix it. If I'm giving bad information here, someone please correct me.
Thanks,
Chris

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boxermania
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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby boxermania » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:11 pm

two wheel tango

1) If the bike was operating correctly and then the idle problems slowly began appearing the problm is with one or both of the stick coils, as they are known to slowly fail in the presence of engine heat.

2) A secondary problem would be with air leaks at the gasket between the TB adapter and he head.

3) Last but not least, if the poblem arose after a TB sync and idle speed adjust, the problem is there. BTW, there are idle screws and they are usually referred to as the BBS (Big Brass Screws) located on the outside of the TB's.

My money is with #1 and #3 above, good luck.
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MoonBeemer
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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby MoonBeemer » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:37 pm

Hi Boxer,
As I look at the microfiche, I do not see a gasket between the TB and the head. I see what they call and inlet or intake manifold. Is that what you are talking about? Thanks Roger
2004 R1150R

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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby omg1010 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:22 am

The gasket = p/n 04 on the pic below. Another culprit could also be the seal (p/n 11). I'd also look at p/n 10 ... I am with boxermanias analysis.

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CycleRob
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Re: Help Please! Bike cannot hold idle.

Postby CycleRob » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:43 pm

two wheel tango wrote: Ran the engine on fast idle and pulled the secondary leads. On the right side no perceptible change in running. On the left side, engine stumbles/misfires and strong spark jumping from the lead. Swapped the stick coils and did the same test - Behavior stays the same on the left side.


Hmmm. :-k When you perform a spark test by removing high voltage (~40KV) secondary wires you MUST ground out the removed wire thru an inserted sparkplug in contact with an engine bolt. The fins are powder coated silver painted and a very poor or non existent ground. Test the painted fin's ground to an engine bolt with an Ohmmeter and you'll see an open circuit. If the removed wire is NOT well grounded, like no micro-pinhole available in the paint, the other connected plug wire will NOT fire it's connected sparkplug. The BMW OilHead dual coil's secondary is a series circuit between both sparkplugs. That is, one plug fires from the ground backwards, thru the coil and then to the other sparkplug to ground. They both fire simultaneously every full turn of the crankshaft. One cylinder on the end of the compression stroke, the other cylinder at the end of it's exhaust stroke. It's a cheap system that works (1 coil, 1 trigger), although at less than maximum effectiveness - - - for the plug that fires backwards. What all those words mean is that your secondary output test may have been invalid or there is another problem. Also, OVER-tightening the intake manifold adapter bolts can warp the sealing contact area, causing a small vacuum leak. Finally, there could be a partially burned exhaust valve or one too tight valve adjustment on the unresponsive cylinder.


Your September 18th problem may have been resolved, but if not, it sounds like something was disturbed or plugged up in the R&R cleaning process.
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