So, Leather or Textile

[Xdot]

I'm currently in the process of gearing up and have been following the threads with interest. One thing I haven't seen discussed is leather vs textile. I have a heavy leather jacket that is not a riding jacket but I have ridden in it. The wind protection is magnificent. But how does leather do with water? I know it can be waterproof. Hard to beat waterproof breathable though. I tried on an Icon Motorhead (leather) a few days ago and holy cow, what a wonderful piece of gear. I have a CoreTech mesh jacket with removable waterproof and insulated liners. Doesn't fit nearly as well - especially with the liners in. I'm rambling. Please weigh in with your vast experience and stop me!

[angellr]

I too had the same dilema. Here is what I did as follows:

1st purchase: $300 composite jacket from a local NON-BMW dealer
2nd purchase: Aerostich 2-piece suit (returned)
3rd/last: Motoport 2-piece Kevlar suit with quad armor EVERYWHERE. Also got the bright highlights. This was one of the BEST PURCHASES EVER!! Also, make sure you get the proper footwear. SIDI Canyons were my choice. Also, make sure you get the rain/warm inserts for the gear. Well worth the $$$.

The last purchase was based on a spill I took on a previous bike when I locked up the front brakes and went down and slid on my left side for several feet with a bike on top. I had denim/1st composite on and still got some road rash on the non-composite portion of the gear. I also wanted more protection on my shins as well.

[Lion_Lady]

For straight up skin protection, leather is by far the best. MC racers wear leather gear because they're likely to go down and slide/tumble at 100+ miles an hour. Do you think you're likely to crash at high speed? Well made (name brand) textile motorcycle gear will protect as well as leather in a "typical" street crash.

XDOT, I see you live in Alabama. Leather is going to be mighty uncomfortable in typical southern heat/high humidity. It is tough to find lighter colors of leather - probably because leather is hard to clean, and light colors show grunge faster than darker colors. Leather also tends to be weighty (heavy), and has to be maintained. Leather can be pricey.

I prefer good textile gear because it offers me greater flexibility for the money. For the cost of a single set of top of the line leathers, I've got 3 textile MC jackets, and 3 pairs of MC pants. Cool weather, cold weather, and hot weather. I have tossed each of those pieces in my washing machine and washed them when they got bug and road grime encrusted. Several times.

You've got to decide what are your priorities and mesh those with your riding profile. Do you commute? Then get good gear ASAP. You are rolling the dice each time you head out there with the harried cagers. Do not forget boots and full fingered gloves. >> Most folks don't consider how important full use of their hands are to maintaining their jobs or livelihoods. Even at 50 mph we tend to put our hands out to break a fall.

6 years ago, I lowsided/crashed in my textile mesh BMW gear. I slid about 30-40 feet with my bike on my right leg. The right knee of the pants had a dime size hole worn through two layers of ballistic nylon fabric to the armor pad. My jacket showed scuffs to the shoulder and elbow. My (leather) gloves were scuffed from the slide. Insurance replaced the jacket/pants. I still wear the gloves and leather boots.

P

[marsdog]

I've had the unfortunate experience of testing my gear against pavement twice. The first time, I think I hit some gravel leaning too hard on a nice freeway on-ramp. Not sure of the speed, but I lowsided and slid a good 15-20 feet. I was wearing BMW Savanna ll Jacket and Airflow Pants. I had no damage to myself. My gear had a minor tear on the pants and just some scuffs on the jacket. The gear did it's job. I repaired the pants and continue to use it.
The second incident involve invisible diesel oil in a hairpin turn. I was going slow, in traffic, but when the rear caught the oil, I went down in a hurry. I slid maybe 10 feet. I was wearing the same pants, but a cheap TourMaster Mesh Jacket. The pants were fine, just more scuffs, but the jacket fabric tore pretty significantly along the forearm, but once again, protected my skin from damage. If I was travelling faster, I think my skin would have eventually found the tarmac. Even though that jacket did it's job, I won't trust a cheap jacket again. I found a good price on a slightly used Rev'it Airforce Mesh Jacket. Even though it's mesh and a tight weave, it gives plenty air and I can tell this is made as good, if not better than the BMW Jacket. I use the Rev'it 9 months a year (with liner) and the BMW in the colder months. Don't waste money on a cheap jacket, pay the price, your skin is worth it!

[MattPie]

I'm currently in the process of gearing up and have been following the threads with interest. One thing I haven't seen discussed is leather vs textile. I have a heavy leather jacket that is not a riding jacket but I have ridden in it. The wind protection is magnificent. But how does leather do with water? I know it can be waterproof. Hard to beat waterproof breathable though. I tried on an Icon Motorhead (leather) a few days ago and holy cow, what a wonderful piece of gear. I have a CoreTech mesh jacket with removable waterproof and insulated liners. Doesn't fit nearly as well - especially with the liners in. I'm rambling. Please weigh in with your vast experience and stop me!

I have a couple sets of gear.
0. I was young and inexperienced. I bought some motorcycle-weight but non-armor leather pants and jacket. I wore the pants once in awhile when it was cold up until I bought textile pants a month or two ago. Haven't worn the jacket in a long time.
1. Olympia AirGluide mesh jacket and pants. Nice enough suit, lots of air flow but has textile bits in area you're going to mostly contact the ground (knees, outside of the arms, etc. I don't think the knee or maybe elbow armor will stay in place if I get into a slide. I only really wear it when it's too hot to wear my other stuff.
2. Leather Fieldsher Track Paddock jacket and Sport 1.0 pants. The pants are the most comfortable pants I have, but rather dorky. The jacket is pretty understated. Both have great armor. I nearly bought another jacket when it went closeout to save, but decided that was silly. I'm comfortable in it up to 85-90 degrees and always wear it when I'm going for a twisty ride and track days. Full-zip around the waist is nice too, and there's an 8" zipper that's compatible with the Olympia gear so I can mix and match.
3. Olympia Ranger 2 Pants: Nice pair of pants, extra fabric at knees. Pretty warm down to at least 40 so far.

I really like the Olympia gear. They do a lot of things right, and seem to have fabric in the important parts. Than being said, I'm seriously considering some Motoport gear when I finish losing weight. All my gear is really big on me now, except for the Ranger 2 pants.

[AirForceDirt]

In a basic sense, there's nothing that will beat the durability and resistance to abrasion of leather gear. Leather will, by far, outlast really anything else in terms of sheer tenacity when you're sliding along the pavement. If you track your bike, almost every track requires leather gear.

That being said, under normal street riding conditions, modern textile gear will hold up just as well as leather gear. Its usually more comfortable to wear (means you're more likely to actually wear it), and will hold up just as well during a crash and subsequent slides. Biggest thing with any gear is to make sure if fits right. Even the best leather jacket in the world won't help much if it's too big and rides up your back in a slide.

Now, my peeve with armor. Jacket and pant armor does NOTHING when you are sliding along the ground. Its ONLY for impact resistance. Its designed to stop many of the minor direct impact related injuries. It's not going to stop you break breaking your collarbone when you land hard on your shoulder. Its not going to stop you from fracturing your knee when you land hard on your knee. It will dampen the impact force and absorb some of it so you don't break everything, but there comes a certain point where it's not going to matter what you're wearing, you're going to get hurt. CE armor will do its job for the most part but it's not a force-field. The armor in aerostitch suits will protect you to an extent, but can only do so much.

Personally, I've gone down once in my roadcrafter and hardly noticed, other than the few scuff marks on it (washed the front end out at 45mph with a 15-25 foot slide on pavement). I've seen guys in full leather suits get tossed on a straight at a track at 180mph, slide and tumble a hundred or so feet, then get up and look around dazed for a second before walking off the track. Get good gear, whether its leather or textile, make sure it suits your riding habits, and you'll be just fine. The key is wearing it; doesn't do any good in a crash if your $500 leather jacket is at home in the closet because its 100 degrees outside.

[jcridge]

Theres a ton of leather and textile comparatives and reviews on the Internet.

Do not mistake racing leathers with their street counter-parts, they may look similar, but fit and protect much differentially.

Textiles breathe, are waterproof and have a street fit that compliments most riders.

I wear a Darien Jacket and 1st Gear pants ( mesh in summer and insulated in winter). I can't say enough about combo. I really like the full length pant zippers on the 1st Gear pants and the rugged waterproof outer shell, big well placed pockets and large zipper pulls on the Darien. I ride from 0 -100F and find the combination works well, but on the really hot days a full mesh jacket would be nice.

You will find a wider range of gear in textile, then in leather. You will diffidently look cooler in leather, but you will be sweating like hell on the inside...

John

[omg1010]

I have been using leather gear but I always found the breathability poor (especially in hot environment) and leather was never waterproof (only recently gore-laminated leather appeared on the market. Hence about 8 years back the Armacor fabric appeared on the market and the first ones to use this stuff was Rukka and poo. Hence I bought myself a poo jacket (best fit) and a Rukka trouser (as poo did not have Armacor trousers). I never regretted my decision. 100% waterproof eversince and relatively good breathability. Armacor as opposed to other fabrics is said to come closest to leather with regards to protection.

Luckily for a long time I did not try sliding over the tarmac with my gear Only during my wild youth I was pushing my bike too hard until the point when my leather gear contacted the tarmac

My recommendation? Go for Armacor textile stuff.

Best regards
Oliver

[Xdot]

Looked up the Olympia and Motoport stuff. Gawsh! They're proud of their products, aren't they!

[SDMAX]

I was at a class two weekends ago; young guy slid out low side at about 10 or less mph; material on his forearm went right through; big rip, ruined. Anything faster and he would have been on his way to the hospital; It was name brand gear I thnk Dianese; looked very cool. Actually wortheless. Here's a thread on another forum on Cycleport:

http://www.pashnit.com/forum/showthread ... c3&t=17736

and

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210877

and

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282149

and

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... ight=sdmax

OK so more than you'd ever want to know; Cycleport/Motorport is in San Marcos, California about 45 mins north of me; I've been there a bunch of times; I've talked to Wayne a bunch of times. They have the best product in the world and deserve your business. I first bought tops and bottoms for my doctor son for Christmas two years ago. He had done the research and found the company. I bought the gear.

When I got my first real bike this past spring, the first thing I did was go up there and order my own gear; black stretch kevlar jeans with suspenders; no back pockets; straight across zippered front pockets. I went to the Kmart down the street and bought a pair of OK fitting jeans; they became the template; when the gear was ready, I took the Kmart jeans back.

I bought a stretch kevlar jacket too, I think it's called Marathon. Then I found that hot and bought a police shirt which I had made up as a "jacket" no collar, mesh sleeves; stretch kevlar at the joints and where needed for fit. I like it and prefer it to the Marathon but it's cooler here now and I'm back into the Marathon.

Look, the money is there to see. The zippers are "locking" they could use a different zipper and you'd never know. They would know. Wayne's niece, his daughter .... they all wear the gear. The kevlar thread is like superman stuff.....the material is not cheap either. Call Wayne up. Order the gear. It'll last forever. In the threads, one guy went down at 130 mph and walked away.

Top, bottom with the right reflective stripes gonna be about a thousand. One debriedment for road rash and you'd pay ten times that to avoid the experience. ATGATT

[angellr]

I was at a class two weekends ago; young guy slid out low side at about 10 or less mph; material on his forearm went right through; big rip, ruined. Anything faster and he would have been on his way to the hospital; It was name brand gear I thnk Dianese; looked very cool. Actually wortheless. Here's a thread on another forum on Cycleport:

http://www.pashnit.com/forum/showthread ... c3&t=17736

and

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210877

and

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282149

and

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... ight=sdmax

OK so more than you'd ever want to know; Cycleport/Motorport is in San Marcos, California about 45 mins north of me; I've been there a bunch of times; I've talked to Wayne a bunch of times. They have the best product in the world and deserve your business. I first bought tops and bottoms for my doctor son for Christmas two years ago. He had done the research and found the company. I bought the gear.

When I got my first real bike this past spring, the first thing I did was go up there and order my own gear; black stretch kevlar jeans with suspenders; no back pockets; straight across zippered front pockets. I went to the Kmart down the street and bought a pair of OK fitting jeans; they became the template; when the gear was ready, I took the Kmart jeans back.

I bought a stretch kevlar jacket too, I think it's called Marathon. Then I found that hot and bought a police shirt which I had made up as a "jacket" no collar, mesh sleeves; stretch kevlar at the joints and where needed for fit. I like it and prefer it to the Marathon but it's cooler here now and I'm back into the Marathon.

Look, the money is there to see. The zippers are "locking" they could use a different zipper and you'd never know. They would know. Wayne's niece, his daughter .... they all wear the gear. The kevlar thread is like superman stuff.....the material is not cheap either. Call Wayne up. Order the gear. It'll last forever. In the threads, one guy went down at 130 mph and walked away.

Top, bottom with the right reflective stripes gonna be about a thousand. One debriedment for road rash and you'd pay ten times that to avoid the experience. ATGATT

+1 - Could not have said this better. Best gear EVAH!!

[wncbmw]

Leather is wonderful on the bike; protective and just looks right! But good leather is expensive and does not handle rain well. I have a Vanson jacket that is perforated and good for summer but I do not use it for traveling. Not versatile enough. Used to have a deerskin Thurlow jacket that was also a great piece of gear but moved on to an Aerostich Roadcrafter.

I have been through various versions of the 'Stich products and they are great and well made. Very versatile stuff and made in USA, so it can be repaired. But living in Alabama, you might find why I no longer have my Aerostich - it's too hot in the summer!

Currently using a combo on Olympia products (AST jacket and Ranger pants). Have had them at least 4 or 5 years and still functional and vent better than the 'Stich. But the summer brings out the mesh! Currently using Motoport kevlar mesh pants with an Olympia Viper jacket (heavier Cordura in contact points than the other products).

The Motoport stuff is the best IMO. Have a pair of kevlar jeans from Motoport on a UPS truck as I type! Custom made to a pair of my jeans, only with armor. I anticipate eventual replacement of all my gear with Motoport clothing as things wear out.

Toyed with the idea of some of the BMW clothing but ultimately went with a company that could do any repairs if needed due to a crash! And after years of sweating while riding protected in the summer, I will never rely on 'waterproof' clothing for summer riding again. It is too easy to have protection and a breeze anymore! Gear that is mesh or breathes is worth the hassle of rain gear to me.

Good gears ain't cheap. Neither is surgery or skin grafts. It amazes me how many folks will drop big bucks on a bike, spend more big bucks on a new exhaust or other farkles and then complain about the cost of riding gear that could save a lot of pain and suffering and let you survive to ride another day!

[bmwdave52]

Motoport 2-piece Kevlar suit with quad armor EVERYWHERE. I've had mine since '03 and still going strong.

[ebincia]

I done the full leather thing for a decade or more and it was good albeit hot in the sun and clammy in the wet. I discovered the Aerostich Roadcrafter in 1988 and have not looked back. The one piece Hi-Viz is my current daily commuter gear.

[Matts]

First Gear textile for me because it comes in TALL sizes, pants and jacket. Also like the feature that the jacket and pants will zip together. The zip-in liners are nice, too. They are suppose to be waterproof but you will still need a rainsuit if you are going more than 50 miles. Overall, satisfied with product.

[omg1010]

I have been using leather gear but I always found the breathability poor (especially in hot environment) and leather was never waterproof (only recently gore-laminated leather appeared on the market. Hence about 8 years back the Armacor fabric appeared on the market and the first ones to use this stuff was Rukka and -----. Hence I bought myself a ----- jacket (best fit) and a Rukka trouser (as ----- did not have Armacor trousers). I never regretted my decision. 100% waterproof eversince and relatively good breathability. Armacor as opposed to other fabrics is said to come closest to leather with regards to protection.

Luckily for a long time I did not try sliding over the tarmac with my gear Only during my wild youth I was pushing my bike too hard until the point when my leather gear contacted the tarmac

My recommendation? Go for Armacor textile stuff.

Best regards
Oliver

Is there any reason why the name of the stuff I have got deleted/replaced? And the name Rukka did not get deleted? Kinda strange isn't it? I mean I don't do any advertising and strangely the name Kushi.... gets deleted while Rukka does not ...

Brgds
Oliver

[NoRRmad]

Could be a hypersensitive, (and multilingual,) bad-word detector...

Initially in Modern Israeli Hebrew, the term "Cushi" was not used as a pejorative term. At times, it was even used to refer fondly to a person of dark skin or a red hair, as King David was red headed. Other words were used to describe dark skin as a pejorative term, for example, the word "Schwartz" (Yiddish: שוואַרצע), taken from its similar meaning in the Yiddish language –- black. In the last decades of the 20th century, the word "Cushi" became a racist slur, some claim as a result of the identification of its terms in English, "Nigger" and "Negro". However, this scenario has never been proven.

The negative changes in the meaning of the term "Cushi" was seen in many companies retagging themselves in the Israeli Market. The well known made-in-Israel cheese "Cushi" was renamed "Ushi" as well as the Israeli "Krembo" (Chocolate-coated marshmallow treats) that in the initial distribution was named "Cushi".

In an Israeli Court verdict that dealt with a bus driver calling a security guard in a university "Cushi", Judge Yitzhak Milnov wrote the following words:

"The term "Cushi" is considered, by the Israeli society as a whole, to be a Pejorative term and an insult, usually meant to defame a person for his dark-skinned color, and to mark him as an "exceptional", and as an inferior person to a lighter-skinned individual. It is a racist slur, meant to humiliate and degrade the receiver, solely because he belongs either to the Falasha ethnic group. This accordingly falls into the fourth alternative category of the definition of "Defamation" in provision 1 of the law (an expression meant to "defame a person for his race, descent, religion, residence or sexual orientation".

[omg1010]

Yeah but I didn't write "poo" ... the company is a japanese and called "Kushi-tani" written in one word ... This is neither offensive nor anything else ... Just a name.

Best regards
Oliver

[NoRRmad]

...You understand that the "bad word" detector here is just a simple piece of software that examines the words in a posting, compares it to a list, replacing suspects with four dashes. It's not an administrator's opinion or anything like that. I don't know who compiles the list...but they are apparently multilingual, and the list is probably included as a package with the bulletin board software, and subject to updates.

I note that I can't include the ex-Vice-President, Mr. Cheney's first name in a posting. And, that's just a name.

Kushi might have cause to enjoin the S/W company to take their name off the list. But that might lead to racists forming mock companies with insulting names, and joining the suit.

[Xdot]

LOL in a sick kind of way. I wondered why Oliver was leaving out the name of the company. I guess that's the price of political correctness, huh?

John