high speed turbulence or need balancing?

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georgek
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high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by georgek »

i don't ride too fast, but once in a while i'll try to get to 100mph if i have space.
i really like to go between 50 and 70. i really feel uncomfortable past 85mph though.
i don't know if i feel turbulence or if the tires/wheels need balancing. i have a bmw touring screen.
i admit i feel the uneasiness a little more with the sport screen.
as far as the uneasiness, the sensation is that of the ride feeling a lot less smooth,
that it might even feel 'shaky' for lack of finding a better word, and like i can easily lose control.
do you have any thoughts? i figure it's turbulence from the shield, the tires need balancing, or i'm a wimp.
i asked my dad, and he said he didn't raise no wimp, so it's either A, B, or he's wrong.

thanks,
george
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MIXR
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by MIXR »

George - No one can make a call for you on this. Too many variables, but obviously you need to look at the simple things like wheel balance and possibly a dinged rim. Maybe engine as well. The wheel alloy is soft and prone to damage. That could give you a bad 'feel' if you have a dinged rim. I regularly rode my R at 130+ kph cruising speeds. I'll qualify that and say that one of our Territories used to have an 'open' speed limit. No longer the case. Convert it to mph if you like. Naturally, it used a lot of fuel, but was always loaded with side cases and the top case, and was very stable at those speeds or I wouldn't do it. I've also run mine to over 200 kph a few times. Too fast for me, but it always felt well-planted and stable.

It indicates that you may have a simple wheel problem, or that the TB balance is out and the bike is 'throbbing' far too much at wide open throttle, which could be another cause of your vibration. My GS Adventure was not happy at speeds that my R loved, partly a function of gearing, and partly because it's a far looser engine, even with half the miles on it. Even with my sidecar fitted I've run it to a decent cruise speed and the bike itself has felt good.

Check your wheels and tyres, do a good 'tune-up', and see how it goes if are in the mood.
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georgek
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by georgek »

thank you, MIXR.
I will take your advice. it was helpful to know that you can go fast on these and feel well planted.
thanks,
george
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by MIXR »

Consider tyre pressure as well. I always ran 36 front and 42 rear, regardless of tyre brand or load. It worked well for me for over 155,000 kms on my R, and again on my GSA.
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sweatmark
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by sweatmark »

Remember that a naked bike will exhibit some instability at high speed due to wind drag, vortex shedding, and high apparent center of gravity. When I rode my Buell XB (naked standard version) at track days, I would experience weave at 100-120 MPH at end of front straight. 120 was all the wimpy XB could do without fairing and drag reduction. I will ride my Rockster during one trackday this summer, and fully expect some headshake at speed entering the braking zone.

For street riding, the simplicity of the naked bike configuration is my preference, but it's not suited for high speed track riding... which is the only place you can safely ride fast.
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Dr. Strangelove
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by Dr. Strangelove »

My 2004 feels stable at all speeds including the ones you mention. Are you riding with luggage, or anything strapped to the back seat? panniers need to be roughly balanced in weight, they need to be secure, and anything strapped on the back seat needs to be really tightly bound. Any deviation from that and wobble will occur.

I usually test my setup when I am on the road by very slightly "blipping" the steering at speed. If I feel any wobble lasting more than a millisecond I stop and readjust or at least check things out. Actually that is an exaggeration. When things are secured and balanced well, there is no wobble at all and my blip disappears immediately. I have ridden with the touring screen and the "380 tall" screen and although they both buffet, I don't think they contribute to other instability.

The above is in addition to the mention of the wheel stuff.

Short answer is you don't want any instability at all and instability is independent of being a wimp.

So you could be stable and a wimp.
:D
But obviously never ride above your comfort level or prudence and instability should make every rider a wimp
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georgek
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by georgek »

Thanks, All, for your advice and directions. I will post any improvements I see.
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by sstein »

Too many variables, but obviously you need to look at the simple things like wheel balance and possibly a dinged rim
I am still working on an annoying vibration in a certain RPM range on my 02 r 16 k miles. After reading this quote, I noticed that I have a small ding on left side (clutch side) of the front wheel rim. I guess it was from a prior owner doing some tire replacement?

I have done a valve adjustment (first time, a grand accomplishment) and a throttle body sync (carbtune).

How much will a rim ding affect ride smoothness? What would the repair entail?

It so happens that the vibration seems to be worse on the left than the right as judged by the handlebar feel and mirror.

Enjoy the good weather, I'm indoors working :(
Steven
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owldaddy
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by owldaddy »

You didn't mention accessories that may contribute to aerodynamic instability. Such as a trunk. The trunk can really upset a machine when the air peels off the fairing and strikes it from the side, alternating from one side to the other. It almost feels like someone is pushing the back of the bike back and forth as your riding. It can be speed related, usually at speeds above 70mph.
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by sstein »

You didn't mention accessories
Only accessories I have are some soft bags for the back, and a new MRA sport vario wind shield, however the vibration I get is the same with the accessories or without them.

What are your thoughts about the wheel rim ding? Worth doing something about?

Thanks for the response.
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by MIXR »

Just spin the wheel and watch it rotate. Minor dents on the bead edge may have no effect on tyre seating or rotation. If you see the tyre wobbling as well as the rim, then you have a rim that needs rolling (repair). Spin thefront by hand, but you may need to pop the brake calipers off to reduce drag and get a reasonable spin, and just pop the rear in gear and have the engine running. Easy job.
Last edited by MIXR on Sun May 27, 2012 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sstein
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by sstein »

Will do. Thanks as always.
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by sstein »

Wheels both rotate fine. Bikes riding great. May just have to accept that there's nothing wrong with this machine and live with the vibration. :)
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MattPie
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by MattPie »

sweatmark wrote:Remember that a naked bike will exhibit some instability at high speed due to wind drag, vortex shedding, and high apparent center of gravity. When I rode my Buell XB (naked standard version) at track days, I would experience weave at 100-120 MPH at end of front straight. 120 was all the wimpy XB could do without fairing and drag reduction. I will ride my Rockster during one trackday this summer, and fully expect some headshake at speed entering the braking zone.
I've been up to 120 on the track, I didn't notice any shakes or weave. We're talking about a finely engineered bike here, not an XB. :)
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sweatmark
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Re: high speed turbulence or need balancing?

Post by sweatmark »

MattPie wrote: I've been up to 120 on the track, I didn't notice any shakes or weave. We're talking about a finely engineered bike here, not an XB. :)
LOL, actually we're talking about 52 versus 58.5 inch wheelbase, radical 21-degree rake versus conservative 27-degree steering geometry, and a hundred pounds dry weight. At the track, the XB carved corners better than anything I've ridden, but at the cost of high speed aerodynamic stability. My Rockster is the opposite... it really needs and could handle another 50 PferdeStaerken.
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