How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

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Milanator
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How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Milanator »

There was a time when it would be embarrassing to ask this...

but not any more.

Started with a 150 Vespa, then a 300 Vespa, which actually moves along fairly well. In the garage for a few years now is my brother's 2002 R1150R with about 26k on it. There's been a moderate amount of work and funds expended on it, and it actually starts and runs well now.

While living in Pennsylvania is quite nice, with hills and scenery, it comes with stoplights and traffic too. I don't look forward to coming to a stop at a light, or in traffic, while going uphill.

With the CVT of the Vespa, no problem. If there was a Japanese style clutch, I could just keep the bike in first and hold in the clutch. But with this dry clutch, I don't ride the clutch much at all.

So, I come to a stop, shift to neutral, let out the clutch, and use my right hand to hold the brake. I don't use the right foot on the brake while standing still, because I'm planting it on the ground to stabilize the bike when it comes time to go. Then, I clutch with the left hand, use the left foot to put in first, while holding the brake with the right hand. Then it's a matter of balancing the brake with the right hand with the throttle - twisting the throttle slightly while feathering off the brake.


What works for you?
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Kirya »

Hill country biker here as well. On the stop light: bike is in first and clutch always engaged (for safety - allows rapid take off if needed), both brakes engaged, leaning a bit on the left side/foot. When light turning green: releasing front brake, working the throttle and clutch simultaneously keeping the right foot on the brake, and off you go.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Milanator »

Have considered that, and thank you. Is there a downside in this bike with a dry clutch, keeping the clutch engaged for a relatively long time in traffic?

Will it wear the clutch out too quickly?
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by kirby »

Probably not if you only do it on hills, not often no?

I always go to neutral a when stopped for more a few seconds. I figure if someone is coming up fast behind you, depending on their closing speed, being in gear won't do you any good, more likely to panic and stall the engine.

Lets face it how many drag strip starts have you done lately.....or ever done?

Getting hit while stopped is a rare event and the possibility comes with riding single tracks.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by towerworker »

I live in a city that is full of hills especially in the middle of town. I try to avoid the ones I know will result in slipping the clutch to get moving. But when I can't I balance bike with left foot, hold rear brake and quickly come off clutch while releasing brake (with throttle of course). I've stalled a time or two. Takes a bit of finesse.

I seldom (almost never) put bike in neutral while stopped. If I've got to move quickly the extra second may be my last.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Milanator »

The MSF course I took emphasizes keeping the bike in first when stopped, to enable a quick start when needed. Of course that was a smaller bike, wet clutch, and level ground. I appreciate the replies.

On occasion I have put the right foot down on the ground behind the foot support, and let the bike rest on my leg on a hill, while then shifting from neutral into first. Since the foot is behind the foot rest, the bike then moves forward and its not a problem. One could say that its ok until the bike moves backward...hasn't happened yet.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by kirby »

I've got 50+ years riding all over the planet and I just wonder how many are looking behind while stopped? Even if you detected some one coming up at 50 fps+ ('bout 35 mph), how are you going to accelerate enough to get out of harms way..... not likely. First you gotta be first in line to make drag race start, furthermore if you do go blasting out into the intersection you might get T boned!

False sense of ..safety?? you bet.

Best stay as far to one side of the lane as you can. Just like filtering has (CA) been proven to be safer in traffic that is moving under 30 mph or stopped.

Holding the brake (front) and staying in gear on a steep incline is maybe the best thing.

BTW
I have 250k miles on my rockster w/the original clutch.

My .02c
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Kirya »

Milanator wrote: Is there a downside in this bike with a dry clutch, keeping the clutch engaged for a relatively long time in traffic?

Will it wear the clutch out too quickly?
It will wear more quickly, but I value my safety more.
kirby wrote:I've got 50+ years riding all over the planet and I just wonder how many are looking behind while stopped? Even if you detected some one coming up at 50 fps+ ('bout 35 mph), how are you going to accelerate enough to get out of harms way..... not likely. First you gotta be first in line to make drag race start, furthermore if you do go blasting out into the intersection you might get T boned!
I do look behind when stopped, at least until something big and heavy stops behind me. The safety is in choosing correct escape route along with ability to escape (bike always in gear). The correct escape route could be towards the shoulder or between stopped cars, it could be even blasting into intersection if alternative is too grim. We ride in era of social media, when cagers do not even look away from their screens when moving into traffic (at least in the place where I live), they do not see us and I won't rely on their abilities or skills a single bit.

By the way I highly recommend MSF courses to anyone who wants to be updated with recent safety standards and practices, they work with recent accident statistics and trying to propose solutions to modern threats. Like full face helmets, stopping in gear, position yourself in the line, etc.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by kirby »

Kirya wrote:
Milanator wrote: Is there a downside in this bike with a dry clutch, keeping the clutch engaged for a relatively long time in traffic?

Will it wear the clutch out too quickly?
It will wear more quickly, but I value my safety more.
kirby wrote:I've got 50+ years riding all over the planet and I just wonder how many are looking behind while stopped? Even if you detected some one coming up at 50 fps+ ('bout 35 mph), how are you going to accelerate enough to get out of harms way..... not likely. First you gotta be first in line to make drag race start, furthermore if you do go blasting out into the intersection you might get T boned!
I do look behind when stopped, at least until something big and heavy stops behind me. The safety is in choosing correct escape route along with ability to escape (bike always in gear). The correct escape route could be towards the shoulder or between stopped cars, it could be even blasting into intersection if alternative is too grim. We ride in era of social media, when cagers do not even look away from their screens when moving into traffic (at least in the place where I live), they do not see us and I won't rely on their abilities or skills a single bit.

By the way I highly recommend MSF courses to anyone who wants to be updated with recent safety standards and practices, they work with recent accident statistics and trying to propose solutions to modern threats. Like full face helmets, stopping in gear, position yourself in the line, etc.

I'll tell you what, after over a million miles on the road and 30+ motos without any accidents or damage to the machines I believe I've got a pretty good handle on how to ride. MSF is really aimed at beginners not old hand like me. I disagree that you have much of a chance avoiding being hit from behind while stopped ,(what they preach) by staying in gear, its just plain physics and a stretch at best, you might convince a new guy of that but I know better.
People that claim they are ALWAYs looking for an escape route are fooling them selves. If your that paranoid then riding must be real chore and maybe you should look for a less stressing hobby..good grief.

So you do what you want and just maybe if your lucky you will get to the experience level that I have.

Lighten up!

:-)
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by sstein »

Interesting thread. I always thought the notion of escaping a rapidly approaching vehicle seemed far fetched. I have to say that getting plowed while sitting at a stop is my biggest fear. Feels like the one risk that is completely not in riders' control.
I always try to stop far over in the lane. If I am behind another vehicle I even stop to their driver side with my front tire along side the rear of their vehicle. I smile and wave to them in their driver side rear view mirror so they don't think I'm just being a jerk :badgrin:
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by kirby »

Yeah, I'm always puzzled how some always talk about the "cagers" are out to get them.
Riding a single track is inherently dangerous not because of the "cagers" its because you have no protection if in a crash except the gear your wearing. They (cagers) are not out to get you but they are sometimes asleep at the switch or not paying attention to their driving.

By riding you have chosen to take the risk, do a good job of managing that risk rather than assigning it to the "cagers"(I really dislike that nomenclature)

The best thing to do IMHO is to always be FIT to ride and focus on the task. Keep you eyes moving to the things around you.

If your of the mind set that "they are OUT TO GET YOU your robing yourself of the joy of riding a moto. Go skiing, much more dangerous, or horse back ridding even more dangerous.(Was raised on a ranch in W TX)

Defensive...yes...careful..yes..Fit to ride...yes..dressed appropriately for the ride...yes..... paranoid....leave that for some other part of your life.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Kirya »

It is all about habits and odds, you can change your rusty habits without impacting your joy of ridding too much, and increase your odds. That is all I have to say here, before I'm gone horseback riding on advice from million mile man.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by kirby »

Don't tell me odds as I would probably stop doing allot of things. Its practicing your skills and staying fit to ride.

:-)
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by wncbmw »

Unless I have a safety factor of several cars behind me at a light, (stopped!) I leave the bike in gear and far enough off the rear of the vehicle in front of me to have an escape route.

As to the rarity of it saving you, it only takes once and I have had my time. I was 2nd in line, checked my mirror (try to always) and saw a car coming that clearly had not noticed the red light. I pulled into the space between the car in front and the curb and got funny looks from the driver and passenger, until they hear the brakes and rubber squealing!

He stopped 6" off the bumper in the space I had been occupying.

Saving your clutch would be of little use. Assume people aren't paying attention and you will be right more than wrong!
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by wncbmw »

As to the original question - yes, leave the bike in gear on a hill! One less thing to coordinate!
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Sunbeemer »

I hold the rear brake and the clutch lever in 1st gear unless it's going to be a loooong wait, then I shift to neutral. To start, I let off the foot brake as I roll on some throttle while smoothly engaging the clutch. This way my right-hand isn't trying to let off the brake and roll on the throttle, which is a little trickier, but also doable.

You don't need to worry too much about riding the clutch because, even though it's dry, it's huge. I've had cars with smaller clutch surface-areas :D
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Milanator »

Thank you for your responses. It's not a "one size fits all" thing, I know. Going to implement the suggestions. New clutch on the bike, along with a fair number of other things done. I want to take care of this bike.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by towerworker »

Unless I've misread some responses it seems some are under the impression that you increase clutch wear by staying in gear with clutch pulled in? I don't understand nor see that. Clutch lever fully pulled in does not wear on the clutch plate (unless I'm misunderstanding or missing something here).
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by kirby »

Holding the clutch lever full in w/the transmission in gear doesn't wear the plate much because the plate really moves very little, it just becomes unpressured to the flywheel.

However it will tend to heat the plate because there is still a small amount of friction. The longer it slips the more heat. Also it wears the throw-out bearing.

What really wears the plate is "riding" the clutch while in stop and go traffic or when trying to navigate slippery or rocky surfaces. If you do this allot it will wear clutch significantly. The R1150R has a relatively high first gear ratio and when in creep mode you almost have to ride the clutch.

Almost all my autos have had standard transmissions w/dry plate clutch same as the beemer, and I ALWAYS shift to neutral when stopped at a traffic light or when standing.

I have never had to replace a clutch on any of my vehicles used for normal ops.
Last edited by kirby on Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:18 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: How do you handle stopping on an uphill slope?

Post by Sunbeemer »

Holding the clutch lever in for a long time will tire your hand out and, I suspect, put more wear on the clutch slave-cylinder push-rod bearing, but it shouldn't wear the throw-out bearing since that is not spinning when the clutch is disengaged.
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