Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

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Keppelj
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Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by Keppelj »

I did a flush successfully a couple years ago but omitted it last year because I hardly rode. My guidance then was Clymers and a very good text and photos description posted here which I can't now find - a process more detailed even than Clymers. Anyone remember seeing that? A link will do - TIA!
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EasyBee
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by EasyBee »

8790 Adaptive, Akrapovic, Hyperpro, Ilmberger, Bagster, MRA, paintsprayed wheels, BMW panniers.
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sykospain
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by sykospain »

Just buy three Speedbleeders - Size: 10mm by one.
Two SBs for the front brake calipers and one for the back.

Attach a clear plastic tube to the SB. Put the other end in an empty jar and make sure it won't fall over ( Been there, done that ).

Remove the lid from the bike's front or back brake fluid reservoir in the master cylinder and keep an eye on the level as you pump the lever / pedal during the bleeding process. Don't let the level fall so as to permit air to enter, or you'll tear out what's left of your hair.
Wait - read the rest here before you start.
.
Be ready to top up the reservoir regularly with fresh newly-purchased DOT4 sourced from a supplier with a regular and fast stock turn-over. If the tin is dusty or looks iffy, go buy the stuff somewhere else.

Get down on your old and creaky knees and simply open the SB with your 8mm wrench and gently pump. No need for the "open OEM nipple / pump / close nipple" cha-cha any more, 'cos the SB has a tiny non-return ball valve that shuts automatically when pressure is released. That's why it costs more than a standard vent nipple that you have to keep opening and closing as you pump. A technique which I never entirely successfully mastered. Air always managed to sneak in whatever I did.

When there are no more signs of tiny bubbles, tighten up the SB nipple with your 8mm.

( For peace of mind, when I fit a SpeedBleeder nipple for the first time, either branded 'Stahlflex' in the EU or 'Goodridge' in the USA and in the Divided Kingdom, I always wrap the thread with a turn or two of plumber's PTFE white plastic tape, to make sure there's no trace of an air-leak down the thread when installed. Consult a plumber to see that you wrap the tape in the right direction, so that it doesn't unwind as your wind the nipple into the caliper, after removing the OEM one. )

After the complete process, you will discard environmentally-securely the 'old' flud from the catching jar plus the remaining contents of that new tin's fluid. Never mind the cost. No matter how tightly you close it up, over time until your next bleed process 12 months from now, that tin will absorb moisture and the fluid will become useless.
¿ Who needs a Clymer or a Haynes ?
Kushtie.
AL in s.e. Spain
PS - thank the Lord your bike doesn't have the pesky ABS...
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Keppelj
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by Keppelj »

Guys, thanks for the feedback. Sykospain, thanks for the careful description of bleeding with speed bleeders. Your method seems like an improvement on traditional bleeding. BMW, however, recommends pulling all 3 calipers annually and fully depressing all pistons to drive out used fluid before pumping in new. Isn't that a more complete flush of the system?
RadicalR1150R
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by RadicalR1150R »

This is per forum member "cyclerob" also a good brake read.
http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=30659
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by sykospain »

Yes, Keppelj, the factory / cyclerob preferred routine of Caliper Piston Push-Back / Push-Out / Purge-'n-Replace sequence is for sure, for sure the most thorough way of expelling all remnants of 'old' DOT4 that normally stays trapped in those pesky corners inside the calipers.

cyclerob's long experience in a motorcycle workshop that's time-targeted for every job, combined with his more thorough procedure refined and improved following his retirement, when time is no longer a factor, means that his method is the Ferrari Testarossa / Rolls-Royce sequence for doing the job properly without damaging either fluid lines, piston boots, seals or piston surfaces.

I particularly like cyclerob's tip for cleaning the exposed and crud-encrusted surfaces of the pistons with a combination of a dry toothbrush and a WD40-soaked cloth wrapping shoeshine-style see-saw technique. Brings up the piston surfaces a treat, without any of that crud sneaking back into the caliper body past the rubber / nitrile seals. And don't forget to either tip-out or turkey-baster suck-out the old-fluid contents of the brake cylinder reservoir before you start the job.

Having done the job myself last year on my year-'04 Rockster's front and rear brakes, I reckon the complete job takes a day-and-a-half to do properly, with many breaks for tea and Eccles Cake or Vanilla Slice calm-downs.

Which shows that there is no way on this earth that a time-targeted dealer workshop maintenance mechanic would ever be as thorough and careful, no matter how speedily and expertly he works. And the added injustice for us as the end-user / rider is that his boss's per-hour invoiced labour rate that you eventually pay is normally circa ten times what the poor guy doing the job actually pockets at the end of the month.

Guess what the hourly labour rate charged out to Audi dealer customers comes to....

£160 = €200 =$250. That's PER HOUR in the workshop. Bring More Wallet Motorrad dealer rates are heading that way, too.
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sykospain
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by sykospain »

After an hour or two's U-Toob videos search, seems to me that this Japanese guy's silent video with the Google-translated badly-written captions is reasonably OK as he's trying after removing the pads, to avoid pushing back into the caliper body the crud-encrusted caliper pistons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL7wPQ0NTNA

The special plier which he uses to rotate the piston is :-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-VS1806- ... ton+pliers

Any comments ? cyclerob ?

AL in s.e. Spain
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by Photoguy »

Just back from reading the dropbox procedure for bleeding abs brakes which evidently are suggested to do annually. Thanks for the links EasyBee.

Wow.. complicated by comparison to non abs brakes that I've bled on my old 70's Honda with some plastic tubing and a large veteran syringe. Maybe I'd better leave this to the shop! <- (wish there was someone in the area besides the dealer for this).
RadicalR1150R
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by RadicalR1150R »

Forget the shop. Read the procedure thru a few times & you'll soon realize the process/procedure & be able to visualize the steps start to finish. It's really not that hard.
Make yourself some wood blocks from something you've got laying around. you can wait till the calipers are off to trial & fit your blocks. Be careful & don't stress the brake lines while your doing the job/fitting etc.
PM me if you'd like..
Steve
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by Photoguy »

Steve-
Thanks I may take you up on that. I've read the procedure in the 17 page doc for the ABS -'Flushing and bleeding 101', I presume that it's complete, seems to be. And while it seems pretty straight forward and it's helpful that it's broken down in a step-by-step fashion I'll need some time to wrap my head around it completely before really getting into it. Maybe you're right and it's doable for a non mechanic like me. I suppose the only thing I'll need beyond the blocks is the funnel, some brake fluid and 3 days to do it ;).
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by RadicalR1150R »

Yep, just set aside a couple days.. I'll ship the funnel, just ship it back. & blocks I've got a beautiful pair of rebuilt calipers & Spiegler lines I've been wanting to put on, but I got sidetracked painting inside the house. let me know.
Steve.. Is yours iABS?
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by Photoguy »

Steve- yes, abs. It's a 2003 so I think technically it's the iABS if that matters? I also think there may be speed bleeders on the bike, as I recall reading the service papers that came with the bike and there was a mention of installing them, I'll check.
That's very generous of you, thanks! I'm planning on this later in the fall before putting the bike up for the winter-later in September early October maybe. That'll give me some tome to go over with the procedure so it'll be a little more familiar.
And I hear you about the painting. I did a small bathroom about a month ago. Where I planned a day or two it took me a week and a half before it was all back together.

I'll be in touch. Thanks again-
Gary
Keppelj
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by Keppelj »

Radical1150R, thanks for the CycleRob link. That's what I remembered and was looking for. The job is done, satisfyingly thorough! Now I'm wrestling with the clutch bleed valve. Thought I'd done that before too, I'm finding the bleed assembly impossible to crack. I'll post that separately.
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by Photoguy »

Updating- there's a speed bleeder on the rear but I assume not on the front. I've bled conventional brakes before but the bike didn't have a speed bleeder. And more motivated to learn/do than before as the receipt I found for the last bleed/flush at the dealer (Max) was about $450. Yikes! Plan will be to acquire materials and print out and read the procedure before getting into it. Thanks again, this is a big help.
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by sykospain »

Last Wednesday, keppelj said :-

"I'm finding the bleed assembly impossible to crack."

I think he means trying to get the Werkstück off the end of the short bleeder hose ( from the slave cylinder ) that's hidden in its sponge rubber sleeve behind the helmet lock, zipped to the frame.

It's difficult to detach, 'cos as Chris Harris says in the video that I link you to below:-
"...the butt crevice in Berlin put red Loctite on it.."

Use a paint stripper heat gun; beware of an open-flame Mapgas which can sizzle the plastic hose fitting within seconds. Best technique is to do what Chris does in the video, that is, remove the hose from the slave cylinder by taking off the rear wheel, silencer ( muffler ) and shock absorber unit.
Then employ the expert Steptoe trick with the braided or rubber clutch fluid line hose coming from the handlebar :-

"...the trick is to undo the top nut on the left-hand fork. Slide the fork tube down so you can pass the hose inboard of the fork leg. This then gives you enough slack in the fluid line at the slave cylinder end to wriggle the slave unit out downwards and at an angle from between the airbox base and the tranny, especially if you've also detached the frame crossbar...".

What a brill trick - many thanks to Neil in south-west London at http://www.gsshop.biz
The trick works like a dream.
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by sykospain »

On the brakes of several bikes of that period, a Werkstück was also fitted to the brake calipers, instead of a regular bleed nipple.

Relevant video, even tho' we're talking here about the brakes, not the clutch. Same principle applies. Gentle heat.:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYPAmrUyiyA
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Re: Where's that brakes flush procedure ?(nonABS)

Post by Keppelj »

I found I just wasn't using the right tools to crack the allen plug. With the rubber sleeve rolled up/back at both ends of the clutch slave unit I used a 3/8" drive ratchet with and allen wrench at the allen plug and a flare type 12 mm open end at the other and "crack" - the plug came loose, no heat needed.
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