Normal? Click/clunk at idle?...Video added of NOISE!

[ammolab]

Took my bike to Santa Fe Bmw for the click/clank suddenly developed at HOT idle described in thread below. They first listened and said "cam chain tensioner" trailer the bike in. Now they call and say it is normal after "so many miles". They say I need a "service". I have 17,000 miles on the bike.

Any of you have a metallic clank at hot idle? I can email a video to any one that wants to hear it.

[Catchina]

Can you post the video here?

[ammolab]

Can you post the video here?

Will try...... View My Video

[deilenberger]

Since it's a camhead, I can't speak from direct knowledge.. I have a hexhead original.. but it doesn't sound awful to me. There is a solid clunk/click in there that doesn't sound exactly like valves - but the spec's for clearances on the camheads is much wider than on hexheads, so if you're at the outer limits (wide) of the clearance specification it's possible that's the noise you're hearing.

Did the dealer check the valve clearances? That may be what they're implying with mentioning a "service" is due. I'd want to hear it after the valve clearances are checked and set. Tighter clearances = quieter (and probably a bit less wear) wider looser clearances generally = a bit more power (but sometimes not, depends on the engine.)

One other thing to do is find another R1200R or R1200GS owner with the camhead engine and run them side by side.

I'd also again suggest narrowing down where the noise is coming from (impossible to tell with a video) using a mechanic's stethoscope ($3.99 at Harbor Freight, often on sale for $2.99 or even $1.99..)

From what I did hear - I wouldn't be afraid of riding it.

Question - do you wear earplugs? It quiets down all sorts of engine noises just like magic..

[ammolab]

Since it's a camhead, I can't speak from direct knowledge.. I have a hexhead original.. but it doesn't sound awful to me. There is a solid clunk/click in there that doesn't sound exactly like valves - but the spec's for clearances on the camheads is much wider than on hexheads, so if you're at the outer limits (wide) of the clearance specification it's possible that's the noise you're hearing.

Did the dealer check the valve clearances? That may be what they're implying with mentioning a "service" is due. I'd want to hear it after the valve clearances are checked and set. Tighter clearances = quieter (and probably a bit less wear) wider looser clearances generally = a bit more power (but sometimes not, depends on the engine.)

One other thing to do is find another R1200R or R1200GS owner with the camhead engine and run them side by side.

I'd also again suggest narrowing down where the noise is coming from (impossible to tell with a video) using a mechanic's stethoscope ($3.99 at Harbor Freight, often on sale for $2.99 or even $1.99..)

From what I did hear - I wouldn't be afraid of riding it.




Question - do you wear earplugs? It quiets down all sorts of engine noises just like magic..

Never heard a valve clearance noise ONLY at idle..and only when hot. Valve noise would not go away at all RPM above idle. I did over 300,000 miles on /5s...I have heard some valves!

[deilenberger]

Never heard a valve clearance noise ONLY at idle..and only when hot. Valve noise would not go away at all RPM above idle. I did over 300,000 miles on /5s...I have heard some valves!

Listening to your video I didn't notice it just at idle. Mebbe it is - but that isn't how it sounded to me. And when an engine gets hot - depending on the design - valve clearances can increase - and get noisier. That's why they spec adjusting the valves at "room temperature"..

BTW - have you been to Harbor Freight yet? You can use the stethoscope to listen to the exhaust VANOS on your M-Coupe also.. If it sounds rattly the VANOS bolts are likely becoming toast. It's also great for finding noisy serpentine belt tensioner bearings on that engine..

[ammolab]

Never heard a valve clearance noise ONLY at idle..and only when hot. Valve noise would not go away at all RPM above idle. I did over 300,000 miles on /5s...I have heard some valves!

Listening to your video I didn't notice it just at idle. Mebbe it is - but that isn't how it sounded to me. And when an engine gets hot - depending on the design - valve clearances can increase - and get noisier. That's why they spec adjusting the valves at "room temperature"..
..

Bike getting new cam chain tensioners AND valve clearance check which was done just 4000 miles ago. The main reason you even have "valve clearance" at room temp is that parts expand when heated and without cold clearance you will have a valve with zero clearance. then it never hits the seat, never transfers heat to the valve seat, and...it burns! Is there a design where a valve/valve stem shorten when hot?

Service mgr tells me to expect the clatter to remain as "normal"... If so I will not be happy.

[deilenberger]

Bike getting new cam chain tensioners AND valve clearance check which was done just 4000 miles ago. The main reason you even have "valve clearance" at room temp is that parts expand when heated and without cold clearance you will have a valve with zero clearance. then it never hits the seat, never transfers heat to the valve seat, and...it burns! Is there a design where a valve/valve stem shorten when hot?

There are designs where the head expands more than the pushrod between the cam follower and the rocker arm - in that case the clearances get larger. The valve stem doesn't get shorter - other parts expand, especially aluminum parts - resulting in more clearances.

Only engine I ever saw that could be adjusted hot or cold and have the same clearances was old Volvo 4 cylinder pushrod engines (B16, B18, B20, B30). Volvo purposely made the pushrods (which were about 10" long) so they expanded the same amount as the cast iron cylinder and head expanded. They had no hot/cold spec - they just had a clearance specification. And checking them hot and cold - it seemed to work.

FWIW - hexhead engines are not particularly quiet. Some of the noise is due to rocker arm endplay - but that shouldn't be an issue on a camhead. Haven't listened to enough camheads to say if they're a noisy engine.

[xprof]

Ammolab wrote:

Service mgr tells me to expect the clatter to remain as "normal"... If so I will not be happy.

Back in '72 I had an R60/5, bought new, with a transmission howl so loud that I could not hear the engine at highway speeds. They told me that it was "normal", that some were louder than others and that "it might wear in" or "I might get used to it." It didn't and I didn't, and I sold it at 25K miles because I just couldn't take full pleasure in a bike that howled like that. I sure hope your experience turns out better, Ammo...

[ammolab]

Ammolab wrote:

Service mgr tells me to expect the clatter to remain as "normal"... If so I will not be happy.

Back in '72 I had an R60/5, bought new, with a transmission howl so loud that I could not hear the engine at highway speeds. They told me that it was "normal", that some were louder than others and that "it might wear in" or "I might get used to it." It didn't and I didn't, and I sold it at 25K miles because I just couldn't take full pleasure in a bike that howled like that. I sure hope your experience turns out better, Ammo...

I had a 72 R50/5 that had that howl...TWICE! Second rebuild guy shimmed a shaft that took the side load off of the twice failed bearing. Smooth sailing for about 100,000 miles after that.