'11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

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AlecMyrddyn
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'11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by AlecMyrddyn »

Hi all;

I picked up BMW's "repair plug" (1/83300413585 REPAIR PLUG, 3-PIN - NO. 611656) last year to connect a TomTom Rider cradle to the CanBus accessory connector under the front right side of the tank.

The power reliably turns on when I turn the bike on with the key.

Here's my problem: The power to that connector frequently turns off when I thumb the starter. I then have to power off the bike and wait 30+ seconds for something to reset, and turn it on again. When the bike is running and the outlet is still providing power, it doesn't shut off until 30 seconds after the bike is shutdown.

Any thoughts on a cause for this? I assume it's a CanBus powered connector and CanBus thinks it's seeing excessive draw when the starter is being used and shutting down for safety reasons? Or is this connector controlled by a relay elsewhere and that relay is maybe going bad or has a weak connection from the battery?

Could I add a small capacitor inline to help "smooth out" the power draw from the bike?

I installed a new Odyssey PC535 last year and have religiously kept it on their charger, I have no problems actually starting the bike.

Thanks.

I haven't pestered the dealership about this yet, as it's more of an annoyance. It feels like it's been happening more frequently recently though.
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Bob Ain't Stoppin'
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by Bob Ain't Stoppin' »

I know the outlet is supposed to remain powered for 30 seconds after shut down. So that should be normal. The other thing with the cut out at start up, I have no idea. Sorry :(
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by jkhomes »

I recall there are some documented issues with the Tomtom cradle and the canBUS. Do a search on this board and you should fine some dialogues. I remember reading about it somewhere else too, maybe the MOA boards.

The repair cable works great with my Escort. Maybe you are due for a Rowe PDM60, Centech or other fuseblock.
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by dbrick »

AlecMyrddyn wrote:Here's my problem: The power to that connector frequently turns off when I thumb the starter. I then have to power off the bike and wait 30+ seconds for something to reset, and turn it on again.
I assume it's a CanBus powered connector and CanBus thinks it's seeing excessive draw when the starter is being used and shutting down for safety reasons? Or is this connector controlled by a relay elsewhere and that relay is maybe going bad or has a weak connection from the battery?
Second question first: there's no other relay - the only relay on the bike is the one that controls the starter.

I think this is a ZFE (body controller) issue. The ZFE controls the application of power to the bike's body circuits based on the inputs it receives from switches (e.g., the horn button or headlight switch) and status (e.g., is the ignition turned on? Is the motor running?). In this situation, I think the ZFE is acting as the load shed relays did in years past: when you thumb the starter button, the ZFE cuts the flow of electricity to everything that the ZFE's programming says isn't necessary for engine cranking and starting, in order to maximize the current available to the starter.

Unless obviously defective (emitting smoke would be a clue), there's no way your TomTom is using enough current to overwhelm the circuit and cause the ZFE's over-current limit to be exceeded. Because the current reliably turns on again 30 seconds after engine start, I think the ZFE is programmed to turn the juice on after that interval, and I think it's operating as designed.

I just went to the garage and started my '07; the small parking bulb in the headlight shell remained illuminated while the starter cranked the motor. I'd suggest either you add a fuseblock or separate relayed circuit as John says, or connect the TomTom to a circuit (like the small bulb in the headlight) that stays on during starter operation.

(Remember that the bike's system voltage will drop while the starter is engaged. It is possible that the TomTom's circuitry *may* see that reduction as "going below spec" and thereby dangerous to the TomTom, and power the TomTom down anyway. This could occur whether the TomTom is connected to an always-on circuit (like the little bulb's) or connected directly to the battery via a Fuseblock or other relay. I don't *think* this will occur, but it might. It would be easy to check, by temporarily connecting the TomTom directly to the battery, then turning the TomTom on, then starting the engine.)
David Brick
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by AlecMyrddyn »

Thanks John and David!

I'll break out the multimeter and check to see if it's the TomTom's cradle or power from the bike that's being flaky. I had been assuming it was the bike, but knowing it could be the cradle is something I'll have to verify. At least it'll be easy to check!

It's good to know it's normal for the ZFE to drop the accessory connector's power during cranking, and that I can use the parking light bulb as an "always on" keyed power source.

To clarify the issue since I didn't write it out very well yesterday:

When it works:
1. TomTom powers on with the key.
2. When I start the bike the TomTom shows a brief interruption in power.
3. Once the bike is running, the TomTom shows that is has a power source again.
4. The power will stay constant until I turn the bike off. Then the TomTom stays powered for about 30 seconds after the key is shut off.

When it doesn't work:
1. TomTom powers on with the key.
2. When I start the bike the TomTom loses power completely, and goes into it's auto-power-off-in-10-seconds routine (with a cancel option).
3. Power does not return while the bike is running. I have to shut the key off for 30+ seconds for something to reset. Once it has reset, power returns when I turn the key, and I try again. Usually it works the second time.

I've been thinking for a long time about getting a fuse block and relay. I have too many separate power leads plugged into the battery as it is. Given this issue and some planned additional electrical connections, it appears it may time to buy one and clean up that mess. I appreciate the suggestions.

Current/Planned Connections:

Fuse size - Amp/Wattage Draw - Sw/Un - Item
10A - up to 10A/115W - Switched - My Heated Gear (jacket & gloves)
10A - up to 10A/115W - Switched - Her Heated Gear (jacket & gloves)
2A - less than 1A/10W - Switched - TomTom Rider
10A - 6A/70W - Unswitched - MotoBozzo Lights (They have their own relay, so need to be unswitched.)
10A - N/A - Unswitched - Battery Tender connection (also used to power a tire pump from time to time)
2A - less than 2A/25W - Unswitched - Additional LED tail light

Maximum Amperage/Wattage Draw:

22A/240W - Switched
8/95W - Unswitched
30A/335W - TOTAL

The PDM60 is interesting for sure, but to actually reduce the connections to the battery it appears I'd need to also add a ground block for all the accessory wiring? It only provides the hot leads? That and I wish it could be programmed from a Mac without having to install windows in BootCamp or something similar. I also wish it had terminals for each device instead of wires to solder to. Oh yeah, and $200? Ouch...

The Fuzeblock has maximum ratings of 30A switched, 30A unswitched, and 30A total across 6 connections. Each connection can be changed from switched to unswitched by moving a fuse. The 30A maximum has me worried, even though it's rare for me to have all the heated gear cranked up to 100%.

The Centech AP2 has maximum ratings of 40A switched, 20A unswitched, and 60A total. Oddly the Centech has 3 fuses for switched, but 5 connections, and 2 fuses for unswitched with 3 connections... I think that means 2 of the switched and 1 of the unswitched fuses can power two devices. Interestingly, Whitehorse Gear thinks the AP2 is being discontinued, or they just can't get any for their stock at the moment. I could go for the AP1 and leave the unswitched devices straight from the battery, but I'd love to clean get more of those connections off the battery.
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by deilenberger »

Not familiar with the PDM60 - but very familiar with the FuzeBlock. I doubt if the 30A rating will be a problem.

As it comes - the FuzeBlock has no input fuse - ie - to the supply to the fuses. On mine I put a marine 30A fuse lump in line with the power feed, and despite having heated gear - and halogen accessory lights - and lots of small draw items wired to it, I have experienced no problem. One consideration - I suspect the reason for the 30A rating on the FuzeBlock is the relay used - probably a 10A relay. If some of your circuits are unswitched (like the charging/tire-pump circuit then that may not be worth including in the equation and you might safely use a bit larger input fuse.)

The ratings you're giving for the heated gear - 110W/10A - well the actual current draw is less than 10A. 110W/12.6V=8.7A (Ohms law..) and that's at a nominal 12.6V, in actuality - the system will commonly run at around 13.1-13.4V "at speed" - or ~8.4A each.. The MotoBozzo lights also are going to draw less than 6A.

If you put that in your calculations I suspect the total will be less than 30A easily. The TomTom probably has a 0.250A fuse on it.. 250/milliamps. That's a rather common size for GPS's. The Battery Tender connection isn't in the equation since it would be subtracting whatever current it's contributing to the system, and the tire pump is unlikely to be used along with the heated gear..

In other words - I think the FuzeBlock will work just fine.

As far as your dropout problem - have you monitored the system voltage when the bike is started? The ZFE will turn off circuits if the voltage drops too low, and it's possible it turns off the GPS circuit (which is the same circuit the accessory outlet is on) due to low voltage. When wacky stuff happens electrically on these bikes - the very first thing to do is a load-test on the battery (and the starter makes an excellent load - you want the voltage to stay above 11V while the starter is active. I think the shutdown on the ZFE kicks in around 10.5V.) While it might also be the TomTom cradle, I can't imagine it drawing enough (without smoke coming out) to kick off the 5A accessory/GPS circuit, assuming you have nothing plugged into the accessory outlet.

IMHO - and I replaced my Centech with a FuzeBlock - the FuzeBlock is the superior product due to the ease of providing switched or unswitched circuits.
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by CycleRob »

I went thru all these decisions years ago when I needed engine running accessory power for the ZUMO GPS, 2 Widder vests and two 12V cigarette lighter plugs on my `09 F800ST. Even though it is for an F800ST, they share the same basic CAN-bus system characteristics, but the actual mounting and related locations will be different. Here are many valueable add-on accessory power tips and revelations for riders not familiar with the really wonderful CAN-bus sytem:
http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=18007

BTW, it has been over 5 years and 23K miles later than that low dollar tinkerer's modification and it all still works perfectly. You can't beat genuine industrial quality components, especially if they are salvaged from discarded components.
`09 F800ST

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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by Dr. Strangelove »

I tried that "gps plug" for my Zumo and found it flakey also, wound up installing an Eastern Beaver accessory fuseblock with the relay tap on the low beam as CycleRob suggests. With the diode. Works fine and as expected. The gps plug sits lonely and empty. Also, that 30 second delay to turn off, was a major hassle. When you're at a gas station and your engine is off, you have to keep an eye on the gps for when it starts to power down, to choose continue on battery, or you'll have to reboot and WAIT for maps and music to load, and wait. Far better for it to shut off when key is off, then immediately choose battery power.
I just don't see the advantage or logic for the 30 second delay.
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by AlecMyrddyn »

Thanks all!

I decided to order and install a Centech AP2 and Relay. I hit order before reading deilenberger's recommendation for the FuzeBlock.

I just need to figure out where to mount it and get it all hooked up. I'll have to extend the feed for my TomTom back to the Centech once it's installed and that should fix that issue!
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by Dr. Strangelove »

Easy enough to mount under seat and run wires. There are pictorials on this site if you search
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by GBag »

Way too much work. I just used the vehicle interface cable that came with my Garmin 220. I ran it with the wire bundle that goes under the left side of the fuel tank and put a right angle can bus connector on it. Plug it into the can bus under the left side of the seat and it goes on and off with the key. I will say that the can bus will leak energy to the unit as it will kill the battery if I leave it plugged in for 3 weeks without running the bike. Now i just pull the can bus connector if I'm not going to ride for a while. Simple & effective.
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by deilenberger »

GBag wrote:Way too much work. I just used the vehicle interface cable that came with my Garmin 220. I ran it with the wire bundle that goes under the left side of the fuel tank and put a right angle can bus connector on it. Plug it into the can bus under the left side of the seat and it goes on and off with the key. I will say that the can bus will leak energy to the unit as it will kill the battery if I leave it plugged in for 3 weeks without running the bike. Now i just pull the can bus connector if I'm not going to ride for a while. Simple & effective.
This leaves me totally confused..

- What is a "right angle can bus connector" and where do you buy it?
- "wire bundle that goes under the left side of the fuel tank" - which one is this, and which "left" (why I prefer port and starboard - like on a boat - there is no confusing which side you're talking about)?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean in some of your statements. Can-Buss is a communications protocol used to communicate between modules on a vehicle, in this case the computers controlling the engine, brakes, instrument cluster and lighting.

It is not a means of powering anything - that's done via power feeds from the interfaces (generally the ZFE which is the general body module.) The Can Buss is incapable of "leaking" energy to the Garmin mount/power module... and I'm puzzled how it is drawing your battery down if as I must assume, you've actually connected it to a switched power lead somewhere.

Are we talking about the diagnostics connector - which is under the rear part of the seat on the port side of the bike?

There are known problems hooking to this connector since it has constant diagnostics signals on a few pins, and those might be what's causing you a problem. That's generally why people connect to the parking light in the headlight, or to the GPS power connector under the starboard front side of the tank.
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
2012 R1200R - I love this bike!
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by rclbaker »

I get the idea that you are seeking a complex solution for a non existing problem?

Don´t know much about electronics, but my Tomtom connected with the "repair plug" to the canbus (indeed, right side under the gas tank) works perfectly for over three years already.

In any case, check the battery thoroughly.

Regards,
Rob
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by AlecMyrddyn »

Rob,

Installing a Centech Fuse panel with relay and connecting the TomTom to it corrected the problem. The GPS plug was definitely cutting power intermittently when the bike was cranking.

Could the cause of that have been low voltage from the battery during cranking? I guess... But on a <1 year old Odyssey that lives on an Odyssey charger when not in use, I hope not. It could have been a defect in the TomTom cradle as well, drawing more power than the GPS plug was rated for so that the ZFE shut it down. Regardless, removing the GPS connection from the equation fixed the issue for me.

The fuse panel also cleaned up what was becoming a huge wiring mess at the battery terminals. I'm down to 3 connections to the battery: the main harness, BMW power outlet, and Centech fuse panel. The Centech now has 7 connections to it: 2 coax wires for heated gear, a battery tender harness I can also run my air pump off of, GPS, Voltmeter, MotoBozzo fog lights, and Skene P3 brake lights.
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Re: '11 R1200R - GPS Power Outlet Flaky

Post by Dr. Strangelove »

the acc fusebox is the way to go when you have real touring stuff on the bike as you do. The congestion at the battery terminals is a battery drain waiting to happen. And if riding long distances you have enough on your mind that you don't need the distraction of remembering to turn off everything hot wired to the battery.
Really don't know why the 30 sec delay on that plug, or anything for that matter. A good place for the delay, if it exists anywhere, would be the dashboard display so you can reset the odometer after you turn off the engine at a refuel.

Does that "flaky" plug still exist on newer models and with the 30 sec delay?
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