800 miles away from home, need help.

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ColumbiaBMW
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800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by ColumbiaBMW »

Im in the middle of a 3,000 mile trip to see some National Parks in Utah/Arizona, and I had a strange thing happen on the interstate. It's about 67 degrees, I was going 85mph, and when I got off at an exit for gas I realized the clutch lever was very soft. Once I got back on the highway it was fine for about 30-40 miles but then seemed to get softer again, I could still shift but it was more difficult. I thought it was maybe just in my head until I got stuck in construction and the bike heated up about 2 bars over the middle, and my clutch lever was much stiffer again. As soon as traffic started moving again though, it seemed to get softer again.

My bike is a 2010, only 11k miles, and the fluid is full, is this normal for the lever to feel softer if youre going faster? Or should I turn around and head straight home right now before stranding myself out in the desert??? Thanks for any advice.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by ammolab »

Sounds like fluid is leaking past either the piston in your master or slave cylinder...you are not getting full action on the clutch plate from your lever actuation.

Riding without a working clutch mechanism is possible. Shifting underway no problem...stops in neutral, then foot pushing to pop into 1st is a ballet at stoplights that is not easy, but can be done.

Those of us who lived in the Vespa/cable clutch days have all ridden home clutch less!
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ColumbiaBMW
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by ColumbiaBMW »

Ive found out the issue is its getting air in the line somewhere, but the fluid level hasnt dropped at all so I sont know if its leaking fluid. And, after I start using the clutch again it must self bleed itself because it starts working normally again. The only time I have issues is after long (50 miles plus) stints on the highway without using the clutch.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by racerb »

Keep in mind the stuff in your clutch cylinder is NOT brake fluid. I notice at time my hydraulic systems (clutch and brake) appear to give soft and hard feedback occasionally. Rapid pumps on the lever usually clears the soft condition right away, Sometimes it might feel soft a few days later. YMMV But, if the level is not decreasing you don't have a leak. If for some reason you suspect the clutch fluid has been replaced I might be suspicious the dot 4 got put back in instead of the Blue oil.

In any case if it shifts , you an come to a stop in gear and no creep, I would not let the symptom derail a super trip. Do find a bmw dealer or have some one ship you a can of the magic Blue Clutch Oil so in case you need any on your trip you'll have some.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by jkhomes »

It doesn't seem right it would self bleed. If air is getting in, the lines are compromised, right? Seems like fluid level would also go down in that case. Are you sure it is not a clutch plate? I would look for a dealer, unless you are good at shifting without a clutch.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by racerb »

John I agree there is no way the system will self bleed. But, what will happen that as time goes on the fluid De-aireates allowing the formation of a small air bubble most likely near or in the slave. This will cause the soft lever symptom. after quick pumps on the lever resistance of the mechanical spring in the clutch will cause the fluid to aireate thus giving the appearance of a "SOLID" system for a short time. Physics of fluid sublimation to a gas and back. Keep in mind the clutch master does not have a return check feature so you cannot "pump up" the system, like you can with a brake master. That is why bleeding a hydraulic clutch system is so difficult to manually bleed verses a brake system. The oil in the bmw system does lend itself to air intrusion but unlike dot 4 it is not an attractor of moisture. I have noted on my dry clutch bikes , when ridden in traffic that is stop and go the clutch will get very hot. Notice most police units have very short life expectancy. The extra heat could cause some degree of oil boiling thus leaving gases in the system. If he's not seeing a decrease in level in the reservoir then it doesn't have a leak and it can't self bleed. As far as mechanical diaphragm or disc issues go, I think if the disc was getting thinner that fast he would find slipping. if the spring were getting weaker it also won't self repair.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by deilenberger »

If Cy Young is still hanging out here - he might have a comment. One of his R1200R's had a similar problem, and it was fixed by re-routing the clutch hose line down near where it goes to the slave cylinder. Apparently it's possible for a vacuum to be drawn on the fluid if the line isn't routed correctly causing a soft and not-fully-releasing clutch action.

I'm sure Cy would have a better description of what the problem was. No parts were needed for his repair, except perhaps a tie-wrap to move the position of the loop in the soft hose to a slightly different position.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by peels »

(edited) wrong thread
Last edited by peels on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by deilenberger »

peels wrote:well sadly, this just happened to me yesterday, as I shifted 1-2 as I pulled away from a stop sign. :cry: Fun ride home. :mrgreen: I remembered this thread.

No air bubbles for me though...the cylinder is SHOT. Piston is completely loose in the cylinder. I stayed up late last night and tore it out-moderate PITA. lol Actually for a minute, I didn't think I could get it out. No clutch slipping so I lucked out.

Think the bikes down for awhile though :( The cylinder was on my winter list of "to dos" Needs tires...etc. I was hoping to get into winter, but I couldn't be so lucky.
This is on an R1150R? This sort of cylinder failure was pretty common on that series, and about unknown on the R1200xx bikes.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by peels »

deilenberger wrote:
peels wrote:well sadly, this just happened to me yesterday, as I shifted 1-2 as I pulled away from a stop sign. :cry: Fun ride home. :mrgreen: I remembered this thread.

No air bubbles for me though...the cylinder is SHOT. Piston is completely loose in the cylinder. I stayed up late last night and tore it out-moderate PITA. lol Actually for a minute, I didn't think I could get it out. No clutch slipping so I lucked out.

Think the bikes down for awhile though :( The cylinder was on my winter list of "to dos" Needs tires...etc. I was hoping to get into winter, but I couldn't be so lucky.
This is on an R1150R? This sort of cylinder failure was pretty common on that series, and about unknown on the R1200xx bikes.

yes 1150r. my mistake.

editing posts. :)
Last edited by peels on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by ColumbiaBMW »

If Cy Young is still hanging out here - he might have a comment. One of his R1200R's had a similar problem, and it was fixed by re-routing the clutch hose line down near where it goes to the slave cylinder. Apparently it's possible for a vacuum to be drawn on the fluid if the line isn't routed correctly causing a soft and not-fully-releasing clutch action.
I've been home for a week now, just wanted to give everyone a heads up and say thanks for the advice. I ended up having to do exactly what was suggested above. After we rerouted the clutch line to make the line go in a more uphill line, we parked the bike on an incline, with the center stand on some 2x4's, and then we (very carefully) tipped the bike back so the nose was pointing as high as we could. We pumped the clutch for about 10 minutes, or until my forearm was cramped and locked up, and it was amazing how many air bubbles came out into the fluid in the reservoir. However, the thing that concerned me is that even after 10 minutes of pumping the clutch the bubbles never stopped appearing, they maybe slowed down a bit, but never stopped completely. Either way, we took the bike on some test runs and it performed perfectly fine, even when we were up around 10,000 feet. Even with it performing fine though, I didn't feel comfortable enough to take it out in the desert hundreds of miles away from my buddy's house in Boulder (especially since I was already several hundred miles away from my home), but we still got some smaller rides in and around the Rockies. Hit up a few breweries, ate some good food, and just made the best out of it. Did the whole 700+ miles back from Boulder to my hometown in Missouri last week in one day, and the bike never had any problems. So who knows, I can't for the life of me understand it, but the clutch line reroute seemed to completely fix the issue.

And because I wasn't able to see all of the things I wanted to see in New Mexico, Utah, and Arizona, this just gives me a reason to go back someday.

PS Anyone know how to change a username? The '03 in my name doesn't make sense anymore after I sold the '03 R1150R.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by peels »

(edited) wrong thread
Last edited by peels on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by deilenberger »

It might be useful to ask Doug to move this thread to the correct forum. You're much more likely to get helpful replies there. The clutch slave cylinder problem is not something common to the R1200R - that's pretty much a R1150xx problem.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by peels »

(edited) wrong thread
Last edited by peels on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ColumbiaBMW
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by ColumbiaBMW »

I was wondering where this thread had gone. But yeah, my bike (the one this thread was originally about) is a 2010 R1200R. Like I said above it was just an issue with the clutch line being looped down near the footpeg, which allowed air to get trapped in the line. But by cutting the zip ties, rerouting the line to go more upward the entire length, and then zip tying it into place again fixed my problem. Had nothing to do with the slave cylinder or an 1150.
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Re: 800 miles away from home, need help.

Post by peels »

ColumbiaBMW wrote:I was wondering where this thread had gone. But yeah, my bike (the one this thread was originally about) is a 2010 R1200R. Like I said above it was just an issue with the clutch line being looped down near the footpeg, which allowed air to get trapped in the line. But by cutting the zip ties, rerouting the line to go more upward the entire length, and then zip tying it into place again fixed my problem. Had nothing to do with the slave cylinder or an 1150.

sorry columbia. Edited my posts-that would be crazy confusing for someone researching. cant delete em, or I would. Then put my 1150 clutch info in its own thread.

really just wanted to say, that, threads like this help when even the smallest thing goes wrong. I lost clutch lever, and having just read your post-even though not really related, it helped me stay calm and KEEP RIDING, to get home. otherwise, might have stopped on the road....and had to wait for a ride.

thanks again, I'm glad your problem turned out to be rather simple. (my 1150 wasnt so lucky. lol)
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