May be my ABS?

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hjsbmw
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May be my ABS?

Post by hjsbmw »

I got the red 'brake failure' light today together with these fault codes:

41704 KL30 (Battery positive) under voltage
The fault is not present now.
24052 Electrical System under-voltage
The fault is not present now.
24048 Power Supply to Pump motor faulty
The fault is not present now.
24049 Power Supply to Pump motor faulty
The fault is not present now.

Does this sound like the ABS pump? Are those the faults others have seen who then ended up having the pump fixed or replaced? Could it be the battery or something else? Can I do additional tests to make sure I do not unnecessarily take out the unit and send it to Module Master?
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by deilenberger »

The code:
24048 Power Supply to Pump motor faulty
The fault is not present now.
Is unfortunately the clue. Every time I've heard of that code it was the brushes on the ABS motor sticking. ModuleMasters can rebuild it for you for a lot less $$ then BMW wants for a new one, and the rebuilt comes with a 5 year warranty.
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by hjsbmw »

deilenberger wrote:The code:
24048 Power Supply to Pump motor faulty
The fault is not present now.
Is unfortunately the clue. Every time I've heard of that code it was the brushes on the ABS motor sticking. ModuleMasters can rebuild it for you for a lot less $$ then BMW wants for a new one, and the rebuilt comes with a 5 year warranty.
Thanks, Don. That's what I had feared. Is there any negative impact to continue riding until winter besides not having ABS? I'd much rather deal with this in the cold time. Have you seen a Module Master repair and how clean they work? Not that I see another option, really.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by deilenberger »

I don't think anything is really effected - except - as you correctly surmise, you have no ABS. I've seen photos of their work, and it looked fine. They need to add some screws to hold the motor back on the actual pump assembly (from the factory it's staked on..) Looked OK to me, and you'd have to remove the tank to see it, which isn't likely to happen with the casual bystander.. :)
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by deilenberger »

BTW Harald,

Some people have cleared it up, at least temporarily, by bonking (tech term) the motor with the handle of a hammer (something fairly firm but not hard, with mass behind it.) It jars the sticky brush loose.. and the thing works again until the brush hangs up again.

I don't think there is a 100% success rate - but what'cha got to lose?
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by hjsbmw »

Many thanks! I may try the bonking special method and otherwise plan on handling this when it gets cold.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by racerb »

I highly suggest not hitting the motor housing with a hammer. The motor field is a ceramic magnate. I also think You can repair the stuck brush yourself. I DID and I'm an idiot.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by hjsbmw »

racerb wrote:I highly suggest not hitting the motor housing with a hammer. The motor field is a ceramic magnate. I also think You can repair the stuck brush yourself. I DID and I'm an idiot.
I have thought about the DIY route. I've seen a pictorial on youtube that wasn't very explicit. One apparently has to drill the motor housing to be able to push on some tabs in order to disengage the housing. Do you have more information on that, where to drill, how deep, etc.? Also, how did you reattach the motor? It's not bolted on but held by punched areas that have to be removed for disassembly, it seems.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by BigEasy »

Harald, I am the somewhat proud owner of a modulemasters rebuilt unit, although I've never seen it. Last year about the time my ABS fault light came on I had a fuel strip (number 4 or 5?) die. I took it to the dealer and unbelievably they volunteered the MM rebuilt unit vs an OEM one. They made it even nicer by cutting the labor rate to remove the tank since that step was covered by the fuel strip recall. Because of the labor shift I think I spent less than $800.00 for the unit and the install. And got the 5 year warranty.

The unit itself has been seamless since they put it in. It seems to work fine and the light stays off. Best of luck getting your issue resolved.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by racerb »

HJS sorry I don't hit the site real often. I'm on the road somewhat. But, the repair of stuck brush is a dead simple repair. If you want to give me a call I can give you a blow by blow over the phone then you could decide if you want the thrill of victory or the agony of writing a check. 704 996 3961 dave brown
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by hjsbmw »

I finally took out my ABS unit yesterday. It took me a while to get it all sorted out. There are some bolts in hard to reach spaces, and that required a trip to the hardware store for a short ratchet extension. I think the amount of time and Bavarian cursing that went along with it removed my desire to deal with this further by attempting a diy repair. I'll ship it to MM and will accept the agony of check writing. ;) Thank you for the kind offer, Dave!
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by winkeldc »

Having just received my unit back from MM, I'd suggest this as a great route to go, so don't sweat it. Their repair was impressively clean, comes with a warranty which the DIY would not, and it appears that should something fail in the future, they left the unit to be repairable DIY. I am not sure what the part is called, but that circular head that contains the brushes, the one that needs to be milled off the module, they inserted set screws to hold it back in place after the repair. When you add in the fact that they bench test the units after completing the repairs, I'd say that's money well spent. Going the DIY route, you'd have to reinstall to test.

I agree, getting at those bolts holding the abs module onto the fram was a royal PITA. I disconnected more electrical bits than I probably should have to get the rachet in there. Getting those back in will likely be even more challenging.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by hjsbmw »

Thank you, winkeldc. My unit is in transit to MM. Good to hear what you are saying about the quality of the repair. I wonder if with the new screws in place around that brush containment cylinder one could access the brushes without removing the unit. At least it seems one would not have to disconnect all the brake lines. But, I hope to really not have to do that again.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by winkeldc »

I hope it goes as smoothly for you (the MM part) as it did for me. It took about three weeks with all the shipping time included, and some delays because my fedex delivery guy kept missing the signed paperwork I had left him.

That's an interesting point, I was hoping this would last the life of bike, but its worth thinking about. I haven't had the chance to reinstall the unit, but am hoping to this week since the weather is getting nicer. By the way, its Dave. I don't think I have ever introduced myself to the group. You'd think over the 8 years I have owned the bike, I would have done that.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by winkeldc »

Sorry to highjack your thread, but since we are doing the same task I figured I'd start here.

I replaced the abs module the other night, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, and bled the brakes by hand. I then did the abs bleed procedure a few times on the front and back and have had no air coming out of the bleeder valves. I have firm levers. My question though, and this might be overly anal, when I look at the abs status in the gs911 program, it says the front and rear brake circuits have 400/200 mbar at rest. The middle reading for the rear wheel circuit, however, cycles between 0 and 160,000ish mbar until pressure is applied to the rear brake, in which case it shows the mbar around 20,000 to match the rear brake circuit. I thought that odd, so hooked up gs911 to my brother's newer r1200r to see what his does. This reads 300/200 at rest, but the rear wheel circuit stays at 0 until the rear pedal is depressed. I am assuming the need for two separate readings for the rear is because of the integrated braking system.

Did I skip a step in bleeding the brakes? I did it manually, and for the rear I just used the rear pedal to move the fluid. I guess my question is do you have to use the front lever to move the fluid as well when you are actually bleeding the circuits (as opposed to just changing the fluid)? Is there a way air can separately be trapped in places by the integrated braking function that using the individual levers would not purge?
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by deilenberger »

winkeldc,

Since you seem to have a GS911 - is there a reason you didn't use the brake-bleed function in the GS-911? It activates the pump, and if there is any trapped air, that's the way to break it loose.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by winkeldc »

I did use the abs bleed test for the front and rear bleeding. I manually bled from the calipers, then ran the bleed test, then manually bled from the calipers again front to back. I did that a few times until I was getting the feeling back in the brake levers. After running the abs bleed test a few times, I stopped getting bubbles out of the caliper.

After that, and this is likely to get confusing , I looked at the abs status in the gs911 software and that's when I saw the "rear wheel control circuit" mbar reading fluctuating between 0/160kish. The "front wheel control circuit" and the "rear wheel wheel circuit" read 400/200 mbar when the brakes were not engaged. That fluctuating number had me concerned because as I understand it, the "rear wheel control circuit" represents the pressure in the system from the abs module to the rear caliper (so the integrated part of the system) and the "rear wheel wheel circuit" refers to the pressure in the rear caliper (representing the isolated rear brake system).

I am not sure what to make of the fluctuating reading, but I am going to ride the bike today because the weather cleared and see what the output reads as I am riding (I have the wifi only but a really long driveway). I am thinking maybe because the integrated braking doesn't work while the bike is stationary (that's why I didn't think I had to bleed the rear brake circuit independantly and I assumed the abs bleed test coverred that), that might cause the gs911 to not be able to read the pressure properly after reinstalling the abs module. Thanks for taking the time to respond Don, I realize how obscure and confusing my question is.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by winkeldc »

I think I have my answer. I think it's the pressure sensor failing.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by hjsbmw »

Just saw this, why am I not getting email notifications as I used to when a reply comes in?

Short answer, don't know. I'll get my ABS back in a few days, and once I put it back in I can run those tests to see what mine does if that would help you. If that's the case, let me know what you need; I'll have the GS911 hooked up anyways.
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Re: May be my ABS?

Post by winkeldc »

Thanks for the offer, but I am fairly certain the pressure sensor on the rear wheel control circuit is on its way to failure. Might have gotten jostled too much in shipping, or was going before and I just failed to notice the inaccurate reading when I tested the unit before sending out for repair.

This might be common knowledge, but I had quite a bit of residual air in the system when I did the abs test from the gs911, air kept escaping through the front brake fluid resevoir. I had it hooked up to a battery tender, but it drained the battery something fierce and I wasn't paying attention to that as much as I should have been. (I thought the tender had a quick charge feature, but I was mistaken). If you have a higher amperage charger, use that during the bleeding process and watch the battery level. Takes a bit of juice to cycle the abs module and I ended up killing the battery through inattention.
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