New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

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deilenberger
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New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

On my "old" 2007 R1200R I had added Hella FF50 "driving" pattern lights, mounted on LumaLink mounts, which mounted to the fork sliders. This provided an excellent auxiliary light source, making riding at night safer and much more pleasant. I left these lights on the bike when I sold it, partly because due to the redesign of the fork sliders - the LumaLink brackets couldn't be used with the 2012 model.

So - I set out to duplicate the performance of the FF50's on the new bike. The simplest way would have been to order new FF50's and new LumaLinks, but I was looking for a different look, so..

First try was MotoBozzo lights from Germany. These mount to the tank, on the bottom of the front tank mount (where there is an empty hole.) The bracket is beautifully made and it comes with a custom wiring harness - made to fit the R1200R. The light used is the "MicroFlooder" which Wunderlich sells without a bracket. Cost was about $165 for the kit.

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(From the MotoBozzo website)

I installed this kit - which revealed problems with it. The lights would be fine for conspicuity - they are quite visible in bright sunlight, but they were not great for night use. The reasons were several: 1 - they are located behind the fork legs, and when on they light up the backside of the fork legs and fork tubes brightly. This is bad for night vision. 2 - Being behind the fork legs also cut off a lot of the light toward the center of the bike. It was almost impossible to get a well centered light pattern using these lights. 3 - The MotoBozzo "switch" (I believe it's actually an AutoSwitch - made in the US) was tied to the high-beam switch. Two flashes of the high-beam switch for on, two flashes for off. The problem here is that triggered the programming mode of my headlight modulator - which uses 3 flashes to adjust the light sensitivity setting. I kept having problems with the modulator being reprogrammed. I eventually removed the AutoSwitch and put in a PIAA switch that worked directly with the light relay, solving that problem. 4 - Current draw. These were ordered with the high-output bulbs, which are 55W - 55W x 2 = 110W, and combine that with heated gear, the high-beam and low-beam on and a heated seat pad and you are coming close to the excess capacity of the alternator, meaning using them all at once could result in discharging the battery.

So - I started looking for a better solution - preferably LED based to lessen the current draw.

There are LOTS of LED auxiliary lights on the market, from cheap Chinese ones to expensive US made ones. The vast majority of them are IMHO - crap. I have a background in physics - studying the properties of light - so driving lights have always been sort of a hobby for me. The majority of LED lights on the market are what can be called point-source lights. They have LEDs facing out and use minimal to no beam shaping to create a useful pattern of light. This happens with the cheap ones, and the horribly expensive ones that you'll see on dealer displays. That sort of source is OK if you're looking for a LOT of light - in sort of a blob pattern. You can easily determine this by looking at the lights - if you look at them off-axis by about 30 degrees or so - and they are blinding - they are putting out a blob of light. You can also hold a piece of paper in front of them and see the pattern (or lack of pattern.) To make them sort of useful the manufacturers keep adding more LEDs to the lights - making the blob brighter, but no less of a blob.

What's bad about this? You have light where you don't want it. For night use of driving lights you do NOT want light to fall close to the bike. You do not want it lighting up trees overhead. You really don't want it lighting up the woods next to the bike as you ride. Why? Because your eye reacts to the brightest source of light and attempts to compensate for it's brightness. The bright light close to your bike destroys your night vision - your iris closes and the rods in your eye retract. That means that your vision outside the reach of the blob of light is greatly reduced. Plus - the forward facing blob of light is certain to blind oncoming traffic - so you have to switch it off. Problem here is it takes some time for your eye to adjust again for normal night-vision, so you're actually somewhat blinded when you switch the light off.

So - what was I looking for? An LED light that shapes the beam, and doesn't have a forward facing LED point-source.

This is actually rather rare in LED lights - I finally tracked down a new PIAA design that uses a "reflector facing" LED source, and uses the reflector to shape the beam. They have several models available in this design, but the best one to fit on the R12R appeared to be the smallest the LP-270.

LINK to PIAA Site: http://www.piaa.com/store/c/4110-LP-Ser ... Lamps.aspx

LINK to PIAA Site: http://www.piaa.com/store/p/648-LP270-2 ... liant.aspx

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List price is $350. I found a deal using Amazon Prime for less then $200 ($196.) It includes a complete wiring harness, and some hardware plus an allen wrench to fit the adjusting screws.

So I ordered them, they arrived and I was impressed with the construction - well designed, and excellent weather sealing. They feel and look like a high-quality item. Hooking them up to a battery in my garage showed them to be VERY bright, but with a tightly shaped pattern - just like I was looking for (basically a flat horizontal pattern that doesn't diverge too rapidly - PIAA said they have a 30 degree divergence, which looking at them I would find no reason to doubt.) There is almost no light thrown out above or below the pattern, meaning they won't be lighting up extraneous parts of the landscape, and can probably be used (correctly aimed) with at least some oncoming traffic.

I'll continue this in the next post - how I mounted them - and the result.
Last edited by deilenberger on Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting (continued - Mounting

Post by deilenberger »

Mounting options on the R1200R are quite limited. There are only a few choices:

Attached to the headlight assembly - there is one vendor who makes a mount that uses the headlight bolts and the turnsignal screws to mount a flat aluminum mount, locating the lights roughly even with the front of the headlight. In the photos on the vendors website - the rather poor photos made this look exceptionally ugly, plus you're mounting to a plastic assembly. With some weight on the mounts I could see this leading to damage to the headlight mount.

Attached to the tank - the MotoBozzo way. The short-fallings of this mount were covered above, plus the MotoBozzo mount is very specific to the lights being used, which are halogens.

Attached to the fork sliders - the LumaLink way. While I found the LumaLink mounts worked great on my '07, they were somewhat overbuilt for the application. There really isn't a reason for the mount arm to be 3/4" thick. They are also somewhat expensive.

So - I set out looking for a fork-slider mount solution that wasn't the LumaLink. This isn't a simple thing to find. I visited a local speed shop that carried auxiliary lights for mounting on roll-bars and light-bars on trucks. The fork slider on our bikes (the newer ones) is tapered, and in the area where the lights can be mounted (so they won't hit the tank at full-lock, full-compression) is about 2.125" in diameter. The usual roll-bar is apparently 2" in diameter. I bought some from the shop I visited - they didn't work out, I bought a number of mounts from Amazon - none of them worked. I finally found some listed on TwistedThrottle made for the Denali series of light. They sounded ideal.

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These were listed as fitting 2"-2 3/8" fork legs. The arm coming off the side can be rotated to correct for the angle of the forks, and the clever hex shaped inner shape accommodates different diameters very nicely. Ordered them - about $70 and had them the next day (RI to NJ - UPS ground.)

I added some thin adhesive foam I have to the inside surface of the mounts - to keep from marring the finished fork sliders and to compensate for the taper in the fork slider.

I ended up mounting them right above the reflector on the fork slider, which is as high as they can be without potential interference with the fuel tank at full-lock/full-compression. The outside surface of the mounts clears the telelever arm by about 1/16" of an inch at full lock. That's fine with me since I've heard of the lock-stops on the frame being broken off in a crash that twists the front end hard. This might mar the surface of the telelever arm in a crash, but it isn't going to bind, and it might well protect the stops on the frame. But.. I digressed..

The results were great:

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I ended up using some shorter 6mm allens I had since the supplied ones with the bracket were either a bit too long (threads stuck out) or a bit too short (full threaded engagement was lacking.) I also used BLUE (medium strength) Loctite(tm) on all the screws and nuts. Using the Loctite allows me to adjust them so I can JUST move the light around a bit for adjustment, and the fastener won't loosen up.

Wiring was fairly straightforward. I added the PIAA switch to the handlebars with a small angle bracket, mounted to the mirror mounting on the left side (with a hollow spacer and a longer screw):

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Next will be a report on how it all worked out..
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

I got to try them last night on the way home from our local club meeting.

Marvelous! The pattern was about perfect, filling in and extending the reach of the stock headlight, while not adding additional light close to the motorcycle. They are bright and well focused.

The only thing I'm thinking on changing now is where I have the on/off switch located. It's fine - falls readily to thumb, but it also hits the tank bag when doing backing up tight turns - like backing the bike into my garage. That ends up switching the light on and off when it doesn't have to be. I means either a smaller tank bag (probably would actually be a good thing..) or a different location for the switch. But for now - it's fine and I'm going to take a break from messing with it for a bit.

Any questions - comments - more then welcome.

BTW - the MotoBozzo lights are for sale - $100 with a custom wiring harness - if you need daytime conspicuity lights they are just fine for that.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by Eagle6 »

Nice setup Don.
My switch preference would be the GSA auxiliary light switch that utilises the stock left hand switchgear and replace the rear piece. Only snag is the price!!

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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by trickytree »

Good job Don, I was only looking at those the other day. I would like some extra lighting on the Rockster, trouble is the price this side of the pond....what you pay in dollars we pay in pounds, plus a bit.

Ideally I would like to double up on the existing lights....ie. have one for dip beam and one for main. Reason being with only one dip headlight on the bike if it blows at night it can be a bit scary.....I've experienced that.
Obviously that would go against what you mentioned about lighting up close to the bike, something I've never thought about before. The other option are the dimable lights, Clearwater (eye watering lay expensive over here) or Deneli. Food for thought.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

Eagle6 wrote:Nice setup Don.
My switch preference would be the GSA auxiliary light switch that utilises the stock left hand switchgear and replace the rear piece. Only snag is the price!!
I added that on the '07, and it would be my preference too - but the cost! Maybe as a Christmas present..
Last edited by deilenberger on Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

trickytree wrote:Good job Don, I was only looking at those the other day. I would like some extra lighting on the Rockster, trouble is the price this side of the pond....what you pay in dollars we pay in pounds, plus a bit.

Ideally I would like to double up on the existing lights....ie. have one for dip beam and one for main. Reason being with only one dip headlight on the bike if it blows at night it can be a bit scary.....I've experienced that.
Obviously that would go against what you mentioned about lighting up close to the bike, something I've never thought about before. The other option are the dimable lights, Clearwater (eye watering lay expensive over here) or Deneli. Food for thought.
While I didn't name them - Clearwater is one of the lights that put out blobs of lights, as do most of the Denali lights. It seems rather obvious to me that neither company thought to get an optics engineer involved in the design process, and both are of the mind if a few LEDs are good, a lot of LEDs must be better (wrong!) I like the Denali mounts - but I dislike the blinding blob of light their lights put out. It's use of a sledge-hammer when a scalpel is really needed.

Dunno on the Rockster - but my "old" '07 R1200R went to the new owner at 96,000 miles with the factory original headlight bulbs in it. The H11 bulbs seem extraordinarily long lasting in the stock headlight housing.

If you really want two different beam patterns - follow the main link to PIAA above - they make another light in the same series with a "fog" light pattern (low, flat and close to the bike.) The wiring would be a bit more complex but you could have one of each, switched on with the headlight bulb selected (although on the R1200R - the low-beam, aka "dipped" is always on..)
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by Newportcycle »

Thanks much for your post's Don, as usual very informative and well thought out.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by Roadapple »

Thanks to the OP for the excellent write up and especially for the tip about the mounts from Twisted Throttle. I recently bought a 2008 R12R and may be adding some light in the future. I understand your argument for the focused beams and have owned PIAAs in the past on a GS - they worked very well. However, I've also owned "blob beam" lights and have found them useful too. I have a pair of very inexpensive Mondomotos MM10 Bullets on another bike and I like the way they light up the sides of the road too because it's easier to spot deer which are abundant where I live. These lights are only 10 watts apiece and effectively double the amount of light and change the color from yellow to white at night without getting flashed down by oncoming traffic. Daytime conspicuity is great too.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

Hi Roadapple..

Blob lights ARE great conspicuity lights - for the same reason they bother on-coming traffic at night. I tend to rely on my headlight modulator for conspicuity (it serves a secondary function of chasing deer away..)

The problem with the blob at night is due to the close bright light your night vision is impaired, and the area close to the bike it lights up, while it lights the area up quite well - it's too late to react to anything it reveals. I'd rather spot the deer at some distance (or the truck-tire-tread) when I still have time to react to it. Lighting up close to the bike reveals what you ARE going to hit, not what you can avoid hitting because you saw it in time.

A good driving light pattern is a horizontal band of light - which correctly adjusted will light up the sides of the road - at some distance from the bike. Since it isn't also lighting up the overhead branches of trees, and the pavement right in front of the bike it tends to focus your attention some distance ahead of the bike, at the areas you would be concerned with - including deer eyeballs. BTW - did you know moose eyes are not reflective?

Just my opinions of course, and as usual YMMV..
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by nathes2016 »

:D :D :D
Roadapple wrote:Thanks to the OP for the excellent write up and especially for the tip about the mounts from Twisted Throttle. I recently bought a 2008 R12R and may be adding some light in the future. I understand your argument for the focused beams and have owned PIAAs in the past on a GS - they worked very well. However, I've also owned "blob beam" lights and have found them useful too. I have a pair of very inexpensive Mondomotos MM10 Bullets on another bike and I like the way they light up the sides of the road too because it's easier to spot deer which are abundant where I live. These lights are only 10 watts apiece and effectively double the amount of light and change the color from yellow to white at night without getting flashed down by oncoming traffic. Daytime conspicuity is great too.
The 16th China International Lighting Fair (Autumn Fair) will be held from 22-26 October, 2015
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by Ckaine »

Hey Don:

Great write up! One question, do you run the PIAA lights all the time?

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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

Ckaine wrote:Hey Don:

Great write up! One question, do you run the PIAA lights all the time?

Chris
No. Actually rarely. I have a headlight modulator - and I feel running "conspicuity" lights during the day lessen the effect the modulator has on drivers and deer. And the PIAA lights are still rather bright at night, so I keep them off when there is oncoming traffic on 2 lane roads. On a divided highway it's less of a concern. They are aimed to drop very slightly (probably at about 300 yards) to help lessen the blinding of oncoming traffic.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by R12RnHouston »

Please tell me more about this headlight modulator!
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

Check out http://kisantech.com/ - you want the "Z" suffix one. That's CanBus compatible. Legal in all 50 states..

Plug-and-play ($142.90): http://kisantech.com/mag/index.php/path ... 5w-a6.html
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by cycl2day »

Don - I have an 07 12R and have been very unhappy with the Denali D2 lights I have been running. They don't do much for my illumination although I am probably more visible to oncoming traffic. I assume you would recommend the Hella FF50's again and if yes, do you know if they draw more power than the Denali's (10watts/1.5amps per light)?
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by KMalo »

cycl2day wrote:Don - I have an 07 12R and have been very unhappy with the Denali D2 lights I have been running. They don't do much for my illumination although I am probably more visible to oncoming traffic. I assume you would recommend the Hella FF50's again and if yes, do you know if they draw more power than the Denali's (10watts/1.5amps per light)?
I mounted a pair of FF50s on my '11 R12R, and am pleased with the results. They do draw quite bit more power, though, at 55W per.

Mine are mounted on HB engine guards and provide nice conspicuity during the day -- especially in bad weather. At night I use them for road light since they seem a bit bright to run full-time after dark.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

cycl2day wrote:Don - I have an 07 12R and have been very unhappy with the Denali D2 lights I have been running. They don't do much for my illumination although I am probably more visible to oncoming traffic. I assume you would recommend the Hella FF50's again and if yes, do you know if they draw more power than the Denali's (10watts/1.5amps per light)?
As Chuck pointed out - yes - the FF50 draw considerably more power (55W vs 10W - per light..) but they are an outstanding light for motorcycles. Great pattern and quite good light output. A well designed reflector will do that.

I tried an experiment the other night on the way home from a club meeting. Left the PIAA lights on to see if anyone flashed me (this IS NJ - where bright lights almost instantly get flashed..) - and no one did. Mounted on the fork legs they're fairly low to start with, and they are aimed so they drop to the ground at around 200-300 yards from the bike, so I guess that helps keep them from blinding on-coming traffic.

I helped a friend install the same lights on his K1300S a week or so ago, and he was following me with the bike yesterday. The mounts he found are ones that mount the lights right below the mirrors - fixed to the fairing. He was running the lights as conspicuity lights - and they were very effective. Despite his headlight being a factory HID light - these appeared brighter then the headlight viewed in my rear-view mirror. I could see him easily even when we were separated by 1/4 mile or so..

His looked good enough during the day that I switched mine on - then looked at the reflection of the bike in a large plate-glass window - the lights are quite visible, and the headlight modulator also remained very visible and noticeable. I may be running it this way in daytime for a bit and see how it goes with wildlife.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by Hank_B »

Happy New Year, Don!

I think you did a great write up of your led light adventure. I have a new to me low mile R1150R that also needs some lighting adjustment. I was thinking of mounting the piaa lp-270 fog lights on a pair of Hawk Talon combo mounts. These are the type of mount that attaches to your cylinder heads and allows both a "highway foot peg" and an aux light to be mounted. PIAA's website suggests that you can rotate these lights 90degs to allow for the mounting pin to be horizontal, allowing the light brackets to mount properly to the cylinder head brackets and keeping the beam pattern properly horizontal to the ground. From the front this would have the famous triangle appearance that one hears so much about. My question would be do you think that mounting the lights in this manor would contribute to early failure due to constant vibrations?

As for driving lights, I might search out some NOS piaa 910's. They are still available, and there are published methods of mounting them to the lower windshield brackets that would get them up at headlight level. They are also capable of supporting a slew of different amperage bulbs that might make finding the smallest draw working solution a possibility. I know that they are incandesant , but there are mentions of them as being projector lamps, making them possible candidates for an hid conversion. As a "hi beam only" light they might be useable this way without too much fear of causing glare to on coming traffic since they would be dimmed at the first sight of approaching traffic anyway. I haven't finished thinking this through, so I'm open to other opinions as to what the best configuration might be.

BTW, great pictures of your mounting solution. I hope that my finished project looks half as good.
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Re: New PIAA LED lights - and mounting

Post by deilenberger »

Hank_B wrote:Happy New Year, Don!
Thanks!
Hank_B wrote: I think you did a great write up of your led light adventure. I have a new to me low mile R1150R that also needs some lighting adjustment. I was thinking of mounting the piaa lp-270 fog lights on a pair of Hawk Talon combo mounts. These are the type of mount that attaches to your cylinder heads and allows both a "highway foot peg" and an aux light to be mounted. PIAA's website suggests that you can rotate these lights 90degs to allow for the mounting pin to be horizontal, allowing the light brackets to mount properly to the cylinder head brackets and keeping the beam pattern properly horizontal to the ground. From the front this would have the famous triangle appearance that one hears so much about. My question would be do you think that mounting the lights in this manor would contribute to early failure due to constant vibrations?
My WAG - I don't think so. Not having a filament should eliminate most of the vibration problems. The light unit is sealed as a 1-piece device, and I don't see anything to vibrate loose or fatigue. I think you'd be fine mounting them there.
Hank_B wrote:As for driving lights, I might search out some NOS piaa 910's. They are still available, and there are published methods of mounting them to the lower windshield brackets that would get them up at headlight level. They are also capable of supporting a slew of different amperage bulbs that might make finding the smallest draw working solution a possibility. I know that they are incandesant , but there are mentions of them as being projector lamps, making them possible candidates for an hid conversion. As a "hi beam only" light they might be useable this way without too much fear of causing glare to on coming traffic since they would be dimmed at the first sight of approaching traffic anyway. I haven't finished thinking this through, so I'm open to other opinions as to what the best configuration might be.

BTW, great pictures of your mounting solution. I hope that my finished project looks half as good.
Thanks!
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
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