Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

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Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby jimz49 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:59 pm

I know the R1100R doesn't have self-cancelling turn signals, but I've heard that the R1100S does. First, is it true that the R1100S has self-cancelling signals? And secondly, if it is, will the flasher relay from an R1100S work in a R1100R as a self-cancelling system; or is there more to it?

I'm aware of the Kisan SM-5, but would like to experiment a little first before I go that route.

Thanks for any insight you have to offer.

Jim
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby omg1010 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:44 am

Hi there,

my knowledge says that all the 1100 models did share the same relay (which was non-self-cancelling) - except for the R1100S which was in fact self-cancelling. When standing = non-self-cancelling and when driving = self-cancelling after about 6-7 seconds.

I suppose the relay should fit in any other 1100 model but the easiest and cheapest way to find out is to check with your dealer who may have a used bike around - or you may check with any of the salvage specialists (like beemerboneyard) if they have a used relay for you.

The Kisan SM-5 is discontinued and if you are lucky you can still find one ... The kisan is the choice if you want to swap your turnsignals to LED - because LED does not work with the standard relay.

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Oliver
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby jimz49 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:10 am

Thanks Oliver for the information. When you said "when standing = non-self-cancelling and when driving = self-cancelling after about 6-7 seconds", would it be a fair assumtion to make that in order for the relay to work when driving that it must be picking up an electrical signal from somewhere, possibly the speedometer? I think the R1100S has an electrically driven speedo, so it's possible. Maybe a look at the wiring diagram for the S will give some insight. Jim
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby sweatmark » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:32 am

would it be a fair assumtion to make that in order for the relay to work when driving that it must be picking up an electrical signal from somewhere, possibly the speedometer?


Yes, the turn signal cancellation for R1100S originates with signal from speedometer. The R1100S wiring harness contains additional wire for the connection of speedometer to turn signal module that is not present on other R1100/850 bikes, nor for the R1150R Roadster. In contrast, the R1150R Rockster, which uses the R1100S speedometer in both ABS and non-ABS flavors, has this extra wire from speedo to signal module, as shown in circuit diagrams.
Now: Rockster, F800S, <next track bike>
Then: R850R, R1100R, R1150R, R1200C, Buell, usw.
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby jimz49 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:42 pm

I wonder if you could introduce a voltage signal on the pin that would normally be connected to the speedo and have the R1100S relay work on an R1100R or other non-cancelling systems. It would be nice to know what that voltage is on an R1100S.
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby omg1010 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:51 pm

I would say too much fuzz and work rather than buying a Kisan relay. The Kisan relay does this by a wire connected to the brake circuit. Hence when you stand and have your foot on the brake = non-self-cancelling, if you don't hit the brake = self-cancelling.

The only problem is that the Kisan is discontinued. In Germany we have some electronic specialists who have created an electronic circuit which is soldered onto the original relay (in the same housing). The cost was something like 30 Euros. I suppose that still exists. If you are interested I'll do an investigation (but you have to be able to solder very thin wires!).

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Oliver
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby jimz49 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:21 pm

I know it's a lot of fuss, but at the same time I find it interesting. Actually it would have been a whole lot easier if BMW would have provided self cancelling signals on all their bikes like most other manufacturers do. I suspected that there was a way to rig the existing relay and that someone had already worked it out. But after searching the net and only coming up with kisan, I knew it was time to check with the real experts. Thanks for your input. Jim
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby sweatmark » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:32 pm

I wonder if you could introduce a voltage signal on the pin that would normally be connected to the speedo and have the R1100S relay work on an R1100R or other non-cancelling systems. It would be nice to know what that voltage is on an R1100S.


All you need to do is tap into your bike's existing signal cancel button's circuit... I think it simply provides ground, but will have to check BMW Electrics CDrom.

Sure, finding a SignalMinder SM-5 is the simplest option, plus you get the running lights feature.

But if you can't find an SM-5, then how about using one of these to trigger the signal cancel circuit via engine RPM?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-830450/
http://www.raptorperformance.com/produc ... Switch.htm
Now: Rockster, F800S, <next track bike>
Then: R850R, R1100R, R1150R, R1200C, Buell, usw.
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby decimus » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:27 pm

I just installed the SM-5 (available here: https://www.kisantech.com/view_product.php?product=SM-5 ).

The instructions included by Kisan for releasing that "U" cam-lock are piss poor! If you're installing the SM-5, see if this works better for you:
The "U" lock is held in place by a small plastic "spring clip", which releases the "U" lock when you push the clip down (towards the relay.) Then you just fold the "U" lock over the connector and you can remove the original relay. When you replace the relay with the SM-5, fold the "U" lock back and it will snap right over the spring clip.


If anyone knows how to locate the brake wire easily, I'd love to know!
Even using my Clymer wiring diagram isn't helping me find it.
1996 R1100R "Raquel"
1971 R75/5 "Bertha"
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby decimus » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:20 pm

Oh, another tidbit about fitting the SM-5 into the relay box: The original relay is held in place by a black plastic. . . uh. . . "holder thingie" which keeps it from falling down into the bikes innards. This "holder thingie" prevents the SM-5 relay from fitting down far enough so you can close the relay box lid. Easy fix, at least on my '96 R1100R: reach down there and snap the bottom pieces off :idea: ! Then use the velcro squares that come with the new relay and stick the SM-5 to the wall of your relay box. :D
1996 R1100R "Raquel"
1971 R75/5 "Bertha"
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby cswett » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:46 am

decimus wrote:I

If anyone knows how to locate the brake wire easily, I'd love to know!
Even using my Clymer wiring diagram isn't helping me find it.


I'd like to know that, too.
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Re: Self-Cancelling Turn Signal Relay

Postby miker1100r » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:48 pm

I know I am a bit late to this party, but my 1998 R1100R has self-cancelling turn signals. They are not programable and do not shut off for about 30 seconds, but they do shut themselves off. There must be a part number somewhere that would help the OP.
Mike
1998 R1100R
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