Problem

Inspired by CycleRob, this section is devoted to all flavors of the F800.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Boxer
Lifer
Posts: 3398
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:16 am
Donating Member #: 2
Location: Atmore, Alabama

Problem

Post by Boxer »

It's the F650GS twin. 2010 model with 24K miles.

I'm thinking this is a fuel and/or air issue from taking everything apart for the valve check a few weeks ago. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Upon cold start up it idles high at about 1500 or so. When I rev it to above 2,000 and let off the throttle, the tach "bumps' down for a second and then continues down to the 1500 mark. I take off and for several stop signs in the subdivision it just dies. I can hear an audible sound with ear plugs when it stops, so it's not like a silent death. And it's not like the engine was dying for a while when it was new. That time it would lock up the rear wheel and I had to stop to restart. That early issue disappeared after 1500 miles or so. This new thing, I can pull in the clutch and hit the button with the clutch disengaged as I'm rolling, and it starts right back up.

Before I start taking it all apart again to check all my plugs and sensors to see if I missed something, are there any clues anyone can give me?
User avatar
Boxer
Lifer
Posts: 3398
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:16 am
Donating Member #: 2
Location: Atmore, Alabama

Re: Problem

Post by Boxer »

On the way home yesterday, It was warmed up pretty good and I stopped at a light. Just to see what happens I revved the engine to about 3500. It dropped back down but gave that little 'bump' at about 1500 then immediately just shut off. Then I couldn't get it to replicate that once I got home...several miles further.
User avatar
Boxer
Lifer
Posts: 3398
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:16 am
Donating Member #: 2
Location: Atmore, Alabama

Re: Problem

Post by Boxer »

Got home today and pulled the air box cover off. No oil in the box. I thought maybe I had dislodged the little rubber vent gasket at the side of the valve cover.

Checked all my connections and tubes. Nothing seems amiss. I also disconnected the battery negative terminal and once I put that back on I'll go through the check sequence again and reset the computer.

BTW, I actually like talking to myself. But feel free to chime in here if you think of something.
User avatar
sweatmark
Septuple Lifer
Posts: 2236
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:11 am
Donating Member #: 208
Location: Oregon USA

Re: Problem

Post by sweatmark »

"Chime"

This sure seems like a CycleRob question, but here are my thoughts FWIW:

Mrs Sweatmark's F800S exhibited "silent death" syndrome until the ECU was flashed with software update. Rode her bike 3k miles last season without a single engine hiccup.

Is the 1500 RPM stall long-term? Possibly related to one particular tank of fuel?

As I haven't yet explored our F-twin for valve check, what's disconnected/reconnected during the disassembly process?

Might the stumble be related to engine/coolant temperature measurement? Sensor connected?
Rockster#2, K1300S, S1000R (for sale)
User avatar
Boxer
Lifer
Posts: 3398
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:16 am
Donating Member #: 2
Location: Atmore, Alabama

Re: Problem

Post by Boxer »

It was doing it on the last bit of fuel I had in after maintenance, then it also is doing it on a new tank of fuel. I don't think it's the fuel, unless the summer blend here is being rejected on principal by Little Chubb.

What was disconnected? Well let's see...on board power socket plug, battery, Idle actuator plug, temp sensor plug, hoses for idle actuator, coils and spark plugs, throttle cable from throttle valve stub assembly. A couple of those could be not plugged back in 'completely' I suppose. But I checked them again yesterday.

Today I reconnected the neg battery lead and went through the motronic reset procedure, the warning lights all work normally...except!!...I noticed the oil pressure light goes out before I start it. The manual says it should stay on until the engine is started up. Not sure if that is important. hmmm? Non ABS so don't have that to worry with.

The little sequence they put you through to make sure the bike won't start without proper switches engaged, ie switch on, in Neutral/in gear, clutch in/clutch out...sidestand down/sidestand up, etc. etc. all checked out as outlined in the manual.

Now all I need to do is ride to work again tomorrow and see how she behaves.
User avatar
CycleRob
Honorary Lifer
Posts: 2857
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:29 am
Donating Member #: 1
Location: Enjoying retirement in Gainesville GA. USA
Contact:

Re: Problem

Post by CycleRob »

Phil, I mostly log on for the first time each day after 11pm and on rare occasions do not check in here, so that can add a response delay. :-" I just checked my bike. My oil light also goes out with all the rest of them after the key-on self test. Only the yellow triangle stays lit. The oil light comes on when the starter first turns. The computer doesn't waste any power when it doesn't have too. If you stall the bike with the radiator fan on, the computer immediately cuts off the fan, headlight, ignition and EFI, knowing the engine and alternator are stopped through its crankshaft position sensor. Even when you press the starter button, it does not actually complete the circuit to the starter solenoid. It is only an engine start "request" to the computer that rapidly checks everything before it actuates the starter solenoid . . . about a 2/10th second delay from the full button push.

Every time I had to remove the battery or just a battery cable, including when I did my valve adjustment check (all OK) and had to physically remove the battery for access, I used jumper wires from an old 12V battery to the Negative battery terminal and the sheltered starter solenoid Positive terminal to keep ALL the data alive. Not just the 2 tripmeters, MPG Avg and Avg MPH, but the fuel injection map that takes many miles to trim (optimize) again. Because of the "events" I read about elsewhere with the internal date and data loss, I was careful to ensure it has had uninterrupted 12V power since it came out of the BMW service dept on day 1 almost 3 years ago. It doesn't hurt to occasionally recalibrate the TPS parameters on any BMW bike with the (key on) throttle on/off/on/off routine.

Your problem is puzzling and hopefully should go away on it's own. The sensor/component plug-ins have multi rib, all weather, aircraft quality seals that require a firm push to fully plug them together . . . until you hear their latch "click". I very lightly coated the exposed male portion ;) of all those disconnected with red waterproof racing grease to enhance the air tightness seal.

I'll bring my GS-911 and NetBookPC to reset the service date when I drop by for Roy's R1150GS slave drain hole drill mod (this weekend?).

Edit: To change the photo provider of the "jumper wires" link and add text enhancements.
Last edited by CycleRob on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
`09 F800ST

Member since Sept 10, 2001

"Talent, On Loan, From God" --Rush Limbaugh--
OU812
Lifer
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:15 pm
Donating Member #: 0
Location: Buffalo Grove IL Chi Town Sub.

Re: Problem

Post by OU812 »

I am a"dielectric" grease fan myself. ;)
RIDE TOO PRETEND, PRETEND TOO RIDE. :)
89 Oldwing, 07 WR250R, 14 KX250F
User avatar
Boxer
Lifer
Posts: 3398
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:16 am
Donating Member #: 2
Location: Atmore, Alabama

Re: Problem

Post by Boxer »

I did a 700 mile weekend up to NC a couple weeks ago and then the 100 miles up to the GMR last weekend, and back. Everything seems fine now. No stalling. No engine dying. Seems the TBS recalibration and possibly tighter connections on the battery did the trick.

I still have that maintenance reminder date coming up each time. Somehow we overlooked resetting that with Rob's GS-911. Maybe we can check it again at the Bash this week.
User avatar
CycleRob
Honorary Lifer
Posts: 2857
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:29 am
Donating Member #: 1
Location: Enjoying retirement in Gainesville GA. USA
Contact:

Re: Problem

Post by CycleRob »

OU812 said "I am a"dielectric" grease fan myself."
So am I, and I have a tube, but the grease I put on the connector was only on the rubber gasket portion to enhance the weather proof sealing property from really really good to Excellent.



Boxer said "I still have that maintenance reminder date coming up each time. Somehow we overlooked resetting that with Rob's GS-911. Maybe we can check it again at the Bash this week."
That's exactly what happened, only it was Thad ("Touchton") that reset it with his GS-911 & 10" SSD NetBook combo that did it. I also had the very same 2 things in my "far side" motel room, but their closer proximity to each other apparently worked out the very distant service date change to the year "2020", equivalent to "Don't bother me again!!". That service reminder is a convenient reminder for people that utilize the dealer for servicing, but becomes annoying to self service riders like many of us -and- it requires either the BMW dealer or a GS-911 to reset it so the annoying LCD warning does not continue to show after every start-up in place of one of your chosen OBC data items until you press the "Info" button. All things considered, the entertaining service data and diagnostic abilities you have when you purchase the cheapest $300 USB version of the GS-911 (plus a NetBook or NoteBook PC) will save you much more than that dollar amount as it'll do "everything" for ten BMW bike VIN's. That means a disabling TPS, cam position sensor or water temp sensor failure can be diagnosed AND repaired by you alone! That includes properly adjusting the TPS's idle switch actuation point on it's installation. Even if you stray from the BMW brand (still very unlikely for me), you can always recover a good portion of your GS-911 purchase on it's resale to it's soon-to-be dazzled and very appreciative new owner. :smt055

BTW, Many of you may know this . . . . if you forget to perform the On-Off-On-Off throttle twist TPS recalibration after a battery disconnect, your bike will run crappy and likely stall at inconvenient times -until- the throttle goes to the full throttle stop when riding. For most riders that can be on the first ride. For some of us older (really older), seasoned, conservative riders, that can be hundreds of miles before it is actually needed. :smt045
`09 F800ST

Member since Sept 10, 2001

"Talent, On Loan, From God" --Rush Limbaugh--
OU812
Lifer
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:15 pm
Donating Member #: 0
Location: Buffalo Grove IL Chi Town Sub.

Re: Problem

Post by OU812 »

CycleRob wrote:

BTW, Many of you may know this . . . . if you forget to perform the On-Off-On-Off throttle twist TPS recalibration after a battery disconnect, your bike will run crappy and likely stall at inconvenient times -until- the throttle goes to the full throttle stop when riding. For most riders that can be on the first ride. For some of us older (really older), seasoned, conservative riders, that can be hundreds of miles before it is actually needed. :smt045
This has baffled many and owner. :mrgreen: Thanks for the reminder Rob!
RIDE TOO PRETEND, PRETEND TOO RIDE. :)
89 Oldwing, 07 WR250R, 14 KX250F
User avatar
CycleRob
Honorary Lifer
Posts: 2857
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:29 am
Donating Member #: 1
Location: Enjoying retirement in Gainesville GA. USA
Contact:

Re: Problem

Post by CycleRob »

In talking with Phil about this a while ago it seems that after reconnecting the battery the first time, the TPS reset procedure was overlooked and not performed after assembling the scattering of harnesses and removed parts. While scanning thru posts I realized it was not clearly answered while reading all the replies. Forgotten TPS/throttle reset sequence. That's all it was that caused this erratic running and stalling "problem" until it was performed after the plug-in rechecks that required the 2nd battery disconnect. It did not "cure itself" the first session because to-the-stop-full-throttle was apparently not used during the rides. Us old and experienced riders do not need full throttle as often as we did when we were just 60. [-(

BTW, If you did not click on the "jumper wires" blue link in my post above, here is how to keep the data alive if you need to remove the battery for cleaning the terminals or battery replacement.
Image
`09 F800ST

Member since Sept 10, 2001

"Talent, On Loan, From God" --Rush Limbaugh--
Post Reply