Clutch spline destruction

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fastfil2004
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Clutch spline destruction

Postby fastfil2004 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:57 pm

Well,

At 70,000km on a highway near Gooderham Ontario, I lost all drive and heard and felt the dreaded crunch. So my beloved
E80 Rockster is waiting for a bunch of parts to arrive. I plan on replacing the clutch hub, plate and slave cylinder and all seals etc while i am in there.

With the great info available here and elsewhere I am quite optimistic regarding the procedures and will keep you posted if there is interest.

Phil
Wiarton, On

Hyja1
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby Hyja1 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:55 pm

Sorry to hear. Hope your rebuild goes smooth and in good time.
Holland Ja, San Francisco
‘02 R1150R black

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sweatmark
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby sweatmark » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:27 am

Perfect timing for winter project. Have you split the bike already? Clutch spline photos are always interesting.
Now: Rockster2, F800S, S1000R, K1300S
Then: R850R, R1100R, R1150R, Rockster1, R1200C, etc.

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sykospain
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby sykospain » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:00 am

Here's my recently-shot video of the Clutch Slave Cylinder Access video.
Many people, inc 'Steptoe', say there's no need whatever to remove the tank and slightly lift the tail to shift that irritating X-bar out-of-the-way. I say bollocks to that. Pull the blasted thing out from the right-hand side and relax whilst doing the job. Thank Goodness on here, wrenching doesn't involve "time is money".

But what turned out to be the absolute nightmare was extracting the compromised gearbox oil seal deep inside the cavity that the slave cylinder sits in.

Image

Wrecked a full set of seal-picks before it finally gave in - or should I say out.

In outline, the slave cylinder access job is thus :-

Tank off - only thirteen bolts, a power connector and four fuel lines. Thanks very much, Fritz.
Seats off
Airbox lid with its air-temp sensor and diag plug connectors off
Air filter out - get a new 'un from HiFlo - cheaper.
Snorkel off
Air input tubes slid back into air box
Three air box attachment bolts out; the ones at each side directly above the cylinder pots are the most difficult to see and get to. The one at the top back edge is obvious.
Rear frame pivot nuts lossened either side
the frame securing bolt directly beneath each nut is then removed.
Driver's ootpegs off
Silencer ( muffler ) off after tracing upwards and unhooking the exhaust air sensor wire connector
Rear hugger, rear brake caliper and rear wheel all off. Don't lose the spacer.
Shocker ( amortiguador ) off AFTER SUPPORTING THE SWING-ARM on a Jacques.
Rubber shock-protector flap off - a squirt of surgical spirit ( USA 'rubbing alcohol' ) helps to let the five little rubber bungs come out of their holes. There's maybe a smear of rubber glue on there too. Carefully peel off.
Remove the 2 forward-facing X-bar clamp screws on the r/h side behind the footeg bolt that you took out. Withdraw the X-bar from the right, not losing the big washer on its l/h end.

Now there's more room above the Clutch Slave Cylinder because the air box is up a bit and the bar is out-of-the-game.
Kushtie.

All that remains is renewing that dad-blasted gear-oil seal. No joke at all....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TQ1nTleSYU

Buena suerte,
AL in Andalucía.
This is the list of people I'd trust with my bike

fastfil2004
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby fastfil2004 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:00 am

About 3 hours in, subframe is up and I am ready to remove the drive train. I swear Bmw has shares in a zip tie distributor, the garage floor was littered with the buggers!.. All in all, not as complicated as i expected.

I have ordered the modified clutch hub, output shaft, slave cylinder and various seals and gaskets which are still on the way so progress is halted until they arrive.

I do not have the special tool to align the clutch assembly, would like input as to the real necessity of this ??

If anyone could tell me the correct size of the bolts to get in order to fashion guide pins to slide out the tranny it would be appreciated



Phil

Hyja1
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby Hyja1 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:34 pm

Sorry I can’t help answer your questions but others here can do so... but I’m curious where you got your parts.
Holland Ja, San Francisco
‘02 R1150R black

kirby
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby kirby » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:20 pm

I have pulled and reinstalled the transmission w/o guide pins, just mussel.
mike Mojave CA
'04 ROCKSTER

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sykospain
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby sykospain » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:36 am

Take a peek at the video below.
The guide pins for easing back the tranny in a straight line, and for re-mating afterwards, are M8 threaded rod - about 10cm in length - or M8 100mm bolts with the head sawn off and a screwdriver slot cut in the new end.

The PITA when sliding the tranny back from the bell housing to access the clutch-pack, is the loop of thick cable round one of the battery-box spigots. Maybe use Steptoe's trick of raising the box up and over rather than using a pry-bar as Chris Harris does.

On reassembly, Tim advises advises against the obvious plan to pull up the tranny to the bell housing by simply tightening the bolts. Make sure nothing is trapped in the interface as you tap the assembly together, preferably with a dead-blow rubber mallet, THEN fix the bolts, not forgetting their cable-retaining brackets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyND-O1zfoY&t=203s
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fastfil2004
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby fastfil2004 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:18 am

Thanks for that. very useful info and reference.

Any thoughts on the neccessity of the clutch alignment tool??

Phil

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sykospain
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby sykospain » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:53 pm

My 14-yr-old Gearbox Input Shaft splines turned out to be in pristine ex-works condition, and slightly greasy. So I assume the bell housing / gearbox split job had never been done before and the grease was factory-applied.

The ringer bolts were also all as dry as a witch's whatsit.

Here's the view of the splined shaft after degreasing, meticulous cleaning with a pick into all the valleys, and a final scrub-off with a small wire brush, before a thin coat of the recommended Staburags NBU30 PTM white high-shock grease was applied.
The clutch friction plate hub was in fine nick, too - no wear.
Very satisfying to see after 25 thousand miles on the clock !

https://i.postimg.cc/wTtkhNTG/Gearbox-Inoput-Shaft-cleaned-and-pristine.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/gc7Vk0qq/Clutch-Friction-Plate-Staburag-ed.jpg

AL in sunny Andalucía
This is the list of people I'd trust with my bike

giarcg
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby giarcg » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:46 pm

fastfil2004 wrote:
Any thoughts on the neccessity of the clutch alignment tool??


I've used a 3/8" Craftsman 3/8" drive deep well socket slid over the clutch push rod with great success.

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sykospain
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby sykospain » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:21 am

Sorry, I forgot to address your Clutch Plate Alignment Tool question. I got mine for 15 snoojits and it's in my view such an item is essential unless you're a real dab hand at using the Actuation Rod as a centerer and have perfect visual judgement on how to make sure the plate is dead-central inside the clutch pack compared to the cover circumference before you nip up the fixing bolts, which are only tightened to 18 Nm, so not too tight at all. And so clearly no need whatsoever to order new bolts. At 18 Nm they'll never stretch.

Beware sellers who want to supply the much more expensive "universal" clutch plate alignment tool which fits all sorts of different bikes' crankshaft centre hole. Three times the price.
This is the list of people I'd trust with my bike

fastfil2004
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby fastfil2004 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:34 pm

Back from Barcelona and time to get stuck in. The parts i ordered had come in including clutch disc, slave cyl, asst bearing and seals and a tube of grease that apparently contains a mixture of gold and diamonds!. Total damage was $750 cdn.

Made up a small support trolley and eased off the housing after making up a couple of guide pins.

All went well but one look at the output shaft told the sad story. Its toast so off to order a new one. Of course these are back ordered and also over $500 cdn to boot. So if anyone know of aftermarket suppliers for this piece please let me know.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2xkvkja7a/

Phil
Wiarton
Ontario

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sykospain
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Re: Clutch spline destruction

Postby sykospain » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:25 am

OMG - what a sad case of spline wear !

Makes me wonder whether your E80 Rock was / has been a victim of the rumoured "shipping-crate-being-dropped" effect that was supposed to mis-align the gearbox-to-crankcase factory setup when brand-new overseas-market bikes were shipped.

Chronic spline damage and catastrophic friction-plate hub wear as seen in your Postimage fotos is hardly ever seen, even in bikes that have been constantly wheelied, and otherwise variously mis-treated and clutch-slipped. You have my sympathy, especially having to shell-out such an armful of loot for a new gearbox-input-shaft and spend arduous hours stripping out the gearbox in order to fit it.

The main worry is the possible interface mis-alignment issue. Even with a new input shaft and clutch pack freshly installed at such vast expense and trouble, existing misalignment of the gearbox housing and crankcase interface can wreck the job in double-quick time. See hundreds of postings in several different multi-page threads on Adventure Rider discussing such misalignment.

People like RogerRT and others have several helpful hints on how to check any run-out. What a pickle you're in !
AL in s.e. spain
This is the list of people I'd trust with my bike


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