How many have had a bad ABS pump?

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brem
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How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by brem »

Mine died one year out of warranty and had to be replaced. I'm wondering how common the issue might be. It never had any servicing done away from a BMW dealer by myself or the previous owner. It was stunningly expensive enough to make me worry that it might happen again, and I'd rather sell it on before that happens.
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Boxerpunk
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by Boxerpunk »

Mine was replaced after 11.500 km, under warranty.
The one my dealer fitted was obviously a "new generation" one (better feedback from the handlebar-levers, two-stage force build up), so I don't expect having the same troubles soon.
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zax1150
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by zax1150 »

you can have a spare .....here across the pond I find they're cheap enough to pick up, about £100 up

or you can wire in the ABS cut out switch, just in case either the pump fails #-o
or you just want to go off the beaten track :badgrin:
Ride it like you stole it!!!

Bumblebee edition 80 :)
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by brem »

It actually just took me a week to connect the reference to the ABS cutoff switch to the switch on the GS models. So, when you hit the switch and cut out the ABS pump, do you suddenly need to squeeze the brake lever twice as hard? During the few months before my pump bit the dust it would stop working while I was riding, once at about 30mph, and while the brakes were still there it was a pretty unsettling experience for the second or two that I kept moving forward when I was expecting to slow down hard. I've ridden some other bikes without ABS or power-assisted braking (mostly 2500 miles on a Nighthawk 750) and I didn't feel like the brakes weren't really working, as I have on the Rock when the power assist was out. I've read a couple of posts here about removing the ABS system entirely and I was wondering if the difference in brake feel was just something people got used to or if there genuinely seems to be less available braking power.
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by Rockster1150 »

brem, it's not that we just lose ABS, we actually lose the servo. This is where the brakes power is, and no they are not normal type brakes when the servo is not working. It's a different design altogether.
I am on my third unit. BMW has been very nice and replaced mine twice, "Free of Charge" whilst warranty had already finished. I am at 60k km now and have been advised by the shop that it shouldn't happen again. Apparently I have just had a bad run..... As for losing confidence in the system, yeh sure a bit. But it works a treat and I love the bike so much.
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sweatmark
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by sweatmark »

I'm working towards my Rockster's ABS-ectomy. Have purchased the couple of OE parts that will be required for the operation, and will need a few others to make everything work. Overall, I don't anticipate any problems.

Once the ABS is removed, the braking performance will remain very good. After all, the same front brake master and calipers are used for both ABS and non-ABS versions of R1150R, and clamping force applied to the brakes on an ABS-ectomized bike will be same as a bike without the PITA Evo ABS system.

Mrs. Sweatmark's Roadster is non-ABS, and I rode that bike pretty hard before purchasing my ABS-equipped Rockster (Edition 80, so I had no choice about ABS). I don't like the Evo ABS "power brakes".
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by brem »

I figured the braking power was still up to snuff, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the main effect of the power assist was to reduce effort on the lever. I got used to the Evo whine after a while and I can't say I'd miss it particularly but I don't think highly enough of my own talent to actually go back to riding a bike without ABS. Seems like the eventual way to go will be to upgrade to an ABS-equipped Beemer from the post-EVO era.
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zax1150
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by zax1150 »

ok firstly the main reason for the cut off switch is so that you can reset, the abs controller, secondly so that you can go off road :badgrin:

with the evo system you MUST reset the unit if the bike is dropped..... ](*,)

the main problem with the evo unit is its power consumption Vs the totally crap BMW battery,
eg: the few police bikes that have had failures, had everything running, leaving insufficient power for the booster :smt100

But if you only ever ride in the dry & never when its wet, then remove the abs, & park it next to your model T when it looks like rain
Ride it like you stole it!!!

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sweatmark
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by sweatmark »

The ABS or not ABS question has received plenty of schrift on the Roadster board (all three variants) over the years; it's not worth debating once again.

Here's some data worth inspection, especially since the R1150R was a test specimen:
http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedings ... stance.pdf

Now purely in terms of mechanical integrity, ease of operation, and cost-of-ownership, my Evo ABS is just not the system I desire. If a non-boosted, single circuit (e.g. front brakes only) ABS aftermarket system could be purchased, then I'd put such on both my Rockster and Mrs. Sweatmark's Roadster.

My ABS-ectomy parts are on order. Will document the process for interested parties.
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by boxermania »

Goodness.....I thought I would never see people turning against ABS.....in the early years we had strong proponenents for with vs. without......now the tide is changing.

I must say with resounding certainty that I never liked it and didn't have it on my bike..... as it made it faster. 8)
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brem
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by brem »

That document makes for some pretty interesting reading. The bit about the riders being able to consistently get maximum braking performance regardless of their own skills on ABS-equipped bikes seems pretty hard to argue with. I'd have to agree that the EVO version is unnecessarily complex and expensive though.

It's entertaining that the main caveat to ABS systems is that they can't stop you accidentally doing a stoppie. Or perhaps that's actually a feature....
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sweatmark
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by sweatmark »

Here's another ABS tidbit:
http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22119
Funny how the ABS topic always elicits passionate responses.
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by fnfalman »

I haven't posted here in a while because my Rock had been down since July 07 and barely returned to service right now. I lost the pump but thank goodness it was under warranty (barely). Then the dreaded spline issue blew - that was the one that debilitated The Rock. I had lost faith in all of the BMW service shops. They have done nothing but screwed up my bike's settings when they tried to fix or service the damn thing. So I had to wait for my guru to have time to fix it and he finally did.

So far this bike had shaken my faith in the Roundel. The shaft drive rear seal went out pretty early and was repaired under warranty. The shocks wore through pretty darn quick by around 14,000-miles. The ABS pump, then the spline blew. The bike had been afflicted with starting issue since practically month 1. It takes forever to start on a cold day regardless of how well charged the battery. Even my guru couldn't figure it out. But my guru's guru said that it might be the temperature sensor defaulting itself to 68-F. My guru will check on that next when he services my bike again. Right now, I want to make her scream to the redline a few times. She's been neglected for too long and needs to be properly flogged again.
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by sweatmark »

fnfalman-

Sorry to hear about crappy luck with the R1150R. That's the trifecta of potential problems: ABS pump, clutch/transmission splines, rear drive seal/bearing. Hope your guru gets everything sorted out, and we would all appreciate any tips that might be shared within the R1150R community.

I suppose the full set of potential problems for the R1150* bikes should include the fuel quick connects and clutch slave cylinder, which gives a total of 5... that's a handful. Agree with you that "Roundel" reliability has faded WRT our bikes. Our Roadster and Rockster are keepers, so it seems preventive maintenance is our only real strategy.

During our annual road trip a couple seasons ago, we crossed the Golden Gate bridge on our way back up the California coast and stopped at the vista point on north end of the bridge. An older european tourist walked over to chat about the Beemers, and was most interested in our riding friends' R75/5. In a thick Scandinavian accent, he commented that as a boy he'd seen his first BMW Boxer, and was told by its owner that a BMW "will always get you home".

We would like to think the same about the oilhead R1150s, but it might take some work.
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by fnfalman »

I think that I would try to do the ABS pumperectomy too. I have zero faith in that system.

First of all, let's make it clear: the servo sucks, not ABS that's sucks.

Secondly, while ABS itself isn't suck, it isn't as useful as on a car either. Most people are simply ill-informed about how ABS affects a motorcycle's dynamics. Yank on that brake handle when you corner hard and you'll go flying, ABS or no ABS.
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by brem »

I actually lost the final drive seal as well, while out on the Blue Ridge last fall. (Hammersely BMW has some nice guys.) That was at about 10,500 miles and four years old. And the first time I took it out of storage I experienced the quick-disconnect booby trap, which resulted in a scary couple of minutes watching gasoline evaporate on a hot exhaust. This bike is my first experience owning any kind of non-Japanese vehicle and to be honest I've never associated high reliability with German marques; the bike hasn't changed my feeling on that, for the above reasons. My observation after time on some new and old Hondas and 5K on my Rockster is that it's a conscious decision on the part of BMW; they're pretty uncompromising in the pursuit of high performance from every piece of the machine, and the resulting need for every last part to fit and move within very tight tolerances has clear costs in terms of maintenance and potentially expensive repairs. I particularly got this feeling when I bought the system case rails- I dig the insane level of engineering that went into making those things from a type of plastic I've never really seen anywhere else, and then contouring everything to fit perfectly both mechanically and aesthetically, and it makes them $250 items. But it doesn't exactly make me think of them in terms of the simplicity and strength of some bent steel for $50 though.

I gather from a variety of opinion on these forums that in years past they preferred to overengineer everything for reliability's sake. I can't think of a bike in their range now where that seems to be true, although maybe the F650GS gets close.
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by manlio »

I am not sure it's the ABS pump or the servo or what, but...
This morning i run through a stop as I haven't notice the brake light flashing madly and realize I have only "residual braking function" left on my rock. tonight, as I am parking after a 10 minute ride around the block for 10 minutes to establish whether i can ride in this condition to the dealership in manhattan (10+ miles) during rush hour, the abs pump/servo comes back to life with its whiny whine, and the mad flashing stops! what the...
is this an easter-like resurrection of the pump? I now don't trust my braking on the rock, neither do I trust the dealership.
Any suggestion of what this might be? should I get it changed anyway? has something similar happened to any of you?

thanks for the wisdom,


manlio
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by brem »

That is precisely what happened to me for about four months, off and on, before the pump just gave up the ghost completely and had to be replaced. If you've still got warranty left on the thing I would start getting it into the dealer now so you can get a history going. It took my dealer a couple rounds of pulling the fault codes out of the computer to arrive at the conclusion that the pump had gone bad.
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump? update

Post by manlio »

Brem & all,

It was indeed the ABS modulator (pump). They told me they had to replace it, @ $1,900 + labor ($ 98 per hour). Luckily I found out from the records in my possession, that a week before selling me the bike, the previous owner had the modulator replaced under warranty, 11 months ago, because it failed with him, as well. Thus, I made my argument that the pump was less than a year old, and that while the warranty for the whole bike had expired, that there had to be at least a 1 year warranty on a new, replaced piece. I finished rhetorically with: " I hope you restore my faith in the brand and its products". It worked and rightly so. Too many things have gone wrong with my bike, but two modulators within a year sure beats them all!
So I have a new modulator and I have not spent $ 1900 + labor. Anybody wants to buy my rock in 11 months?.......
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Re: How many have had a bad ABS pump?

Post by brem »

Nicely done! I didn't have the pump failure until probably 14 months after I bought the bike and had no records to prove anything. If it dies within probably three years I'm going to have to get pretty angry about it, especially considering I only put 4K miles a year on. I've also thought about selling it given the potential for expensive repairs- between the ABS modulator, the final drive seal, and the clutch spline it's probably all about $3K, which is kind of absurd when Rocksters are only selling for $7K now. Glad you managed to get your dealer to do the job as though it were under warranty, though. How many miles did you put on it between failures?
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