Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

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InvisibleOrdinary
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Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by InvisibleOrdinary »

Hi all, I've had some good advice from here in the past, and hoping to get some more on this one… 

I had done some minor maintenance (oil, brak fluid, etc…) on my bike ('04 Rockster), rode it a while then had a shoulder issue so didn't for several months, so it sat. But when I put it away, it was running well.

About a month ago, I pulled it out to ride up the Columbia Gorge, and it wouldn't start - did a rapid click-click-click and gas seeped from the fuel lines near the quick connects. I was in a hurry, so kept it where it was in my drive and went on my way, intending to get back to it. Finally did that today, and am still unsure what it might be:

I pulled the tank off and inspected the lines… didn't see anything that looked like cracks or wear, and checked the QCs and they looked clean. Throttle cables move smoothly (before and after I took the tank off). Only thing I found was the battery was sitting at about 6A, so put it on a drip charger to bring back up to fighting weight.

Came back 40 minutes later, charger wasn't finished, but had done some good and it was still connected so I tried to start it again. It went through the normal checks & whirrs, and then the same issue… I get a rapid clicking and a little gas seeping out around where the QCs are.

Any ideas what to inspect? I don't think it's the QCs, but can replace them… otherwise I'm kinda at a loss. I would like to do the work myself (or with someone who knows what they are doing) so I know, but need some help here… Seems I should replace the battery, but it also doesn't seen like that's the issue here. Right?

Thanks in advance.

Dave
Hyja1
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by Hyja1 »

I say its both the battery and the QDCs and they are two separate issues. How old is your battery? As for the QDs, are they the plastic ones? If so, they are ready to fail. You're fortunate they didn't fail far from home. I think swapping out the battery and the QDs will get you right back on the road.

I know most folks recommend the Odyssey but I prefer the OEM Exide gel. A lithium battery is something to think about. Get your new QDs from Beemer Boneyard. Good luck and hope you get back on the road soon.
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InvisibleOrdinary
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by InvisibleOrdinary »

Thanks Hyja1,

that does make sense… the battery is a couple years old (it's an Odyssey)– I'll look into lithium. The gel battery that was in there before that one lasted 3 years and I never really remember needing to tender it like this one seems to need… and the QCs are stainless, but the innards are plastic, so maybe something broke there

I also am now wondering if it could be the stand switch… at least for the fact that it's not turning over. I realized that yesterday I only tried to start it with the center stand down and have heard that can become an issue... it's still early here, and I'm barely into my first cup of coffee, but the battery is now floating so I'll try to start it later this morning – assuming that the seeping wouldn't stop it from starting, if it starts, that would at least confirm this, correct?

Thanks

Dave
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sweatmark
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by sweatmark »

Agreed - battery + fuel connects are separate issues.
If you can revive battery, then great but sounds terminal (battery humor).
Fuel lines: might be associated with QC(s) but could also be hose-to-QC leak, with misting that's hard to see once the supply line is pressurized.

And why aren't we riding our Rocksters to Astoria for Rogue beer today?
Rockster#2, K1300S, S1000R (for sale)
InvisibleOrdinary
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by InvisibleOrdinary »

Well, it started with the battery topped off, so that is temp-fixed. will replace it this week… I did remember why I didn't go with lithium before: because of the slow start in the cold for lithiums…

Anyway, the seeping is obviously still there, so that also means I'll replace the fuel lines and the QCs just to be sure, though seems that they should be fine given they are SS, but the internals look like they are plastic, so not sure how that holds up over time. I didn't put them in, but I am assuming they are roughly 10+ years old, and at least 6 (how long I've owned this)

@Sweetmark, Astoria would be fun – that's a really great ride – and we should, but I can't today… heading to White Salmon for Everybody's…

cheers

Dave
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by sykospain »

A Li-Po battery, generally referred to as a 'lithium' will start a cold bike better on a cold morning than any old-tech battery will. It just needs first, a couple of attempts to warm it up. Then it'll spin that crank like gangbusters. It's new technology, so it needs a new attitude to convention on the part of the rider.

Trouble is, the market-leader brand Shorai and similar ones are so much smaller in overall size, that the bike's rubber hold-down strap needs modifying. Can be a touch awkward. otherwise, many many advantages over a new Odyssey, apart from price.

The point about fuel-line QD's in their OEM format is that the male one breaks. The innards are plastic. Get brass ones. Or you run the risk of this :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTGMFmNG8AI
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InvisibleOrdinary
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by InvisibleOrdinary »

Thank for the info regarding lithium… all the stuff i found just said you need to keep it warm for it to work in the cold… but if they'd included that it will warm itself trying a couple times, then it's less of an issue… I already have an Odyssey on the way… and have to admit, it's nice that it's 1/2 the price + I can use my current tender as well… which would be another 60-80 dollars… -( …Not too worried about being able to strap it down… would actually be nice to totally relocate it out from under the tank… Will reconsider my thinking when this one goes in a couple years -)

Let me know if my research is wrong here: the quick disconnects currently on my bike are CPC, these https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cpcqkdiscon.html, I believe: - which from what I can find online are brass (with the exception of some plastic internals on the male side)… so maybe that points more to replacing the hoses & clamps and o-rings first, then the quick connects if they still are leaking. Does anyone have any experience with the CPC ones breaking? That video looked like they might have been metal, but the voiceover made it sound like they were stock…

Thanks

Dave
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sykospain
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by sykospain »

No worries, Dave - you have the correct brass Quick Disconnects; good on you. As BBY says "chrome plated brass".
Remember though that BMW Berlin only guarantees the rubber components on its bikes for a mere FIVE years, so it could possibly be that your most susceptible 3-bar-pressure fuel line, see foto diagram below, is compromised and sweating fuel.

The fuel pump, when working correctly, delivers almost 3-bar pressure - a dealer workshop guy in Spain told me 2 years ago that he one day decided to check an injector by undoing it from the throttle body on one side of a GS. The single jet (early model of injector) pierced his finger.

Image

Only trouble about replacing the output hose though is the need to remove the tank to get at the big round plate that holds all the pump and filter stuff into the inner side of the tank. When re-assembling, you'll need a new little U-shaped submersible-quality tube, maybe also a new or rebuilt pump, a new Mahle fuel filter, plus of course the big rubber sealing ring for the plate....not forgetting all the half-dozen correct pinch-type hose clamps, not Jubilee screw-type clamps. Wrongly described by Amazon as "screw-type" ! !

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... 285-7MM%29

Hi-def close-up foto :-

https://s26.postimg.cc/e4o45b5qh/Hose_C ... rsible.jpg

When you think of all the trouble dismantling all that, you might as well have everything renewed.
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InvisibleOrdinary
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by InvisibleOrdinary »

Thank for the detailed info sykospain,

Good to know about the possible injury, bummer that your mechanic found out that way…

I have new hoses & clips (actually more than I'll need - a mix of the injection rated screw-type from BBY, and pinch-type from bmw) on the way - pretty sure I'll have enough, they are just not here yet. I didn't think to get the u-shaped hose for inside the tank, but can probably get those from one of the local shops and more clips if I need them. Already have the new filter and all the o-rings for that, which have been waiting for a good day to install, which is seeming like sometime early next week -) The new battery will go in at the same time.

I believe the pump is okay… it hasn't given any indication that it's starting to get tired. If I get ambitious, I'll try to trace down the heated grips wiring and re-run that as well… we'll see. First times always take longer than you make room for.

Cheers

Dave
InvisibleOrdinary
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Re: Clicky non-start + gas seeping at quick connects

Post by InvisibleOrdinary »

A good update… 

I finally got to replacing the battery and fuel lines - including new brass quick-connects (quick disconnects?) today. Everything is looking and sounding good. And I'm back on the road.

I found out a couple things in the process… the CPC QCs that were on there were a mix of plastic and I think aluminum… They looked basically good condition (until I broke one in half playing with it) but possibly mis-matched (two different makes, the females were the same), but feel better with the full brass ones anyway. The lines looked ok too, but I think there was an almost unnoticeable crack in one segment - the one that was seeping.

I will use the Odyssey battery I bought till it dies, and then move to the much lighter, LI-Po in the next round – I recall, but cannot find a reference to needing to reset the throttle after you disconnect the battery? Is this familiar to anyone? I know I've done it, but perhaps that wasn't exactly for the electrical…

And then a couple other anecdotes…

I can now note that there is still pressure in the fuel line until you remove them from the underside of the tank - and have been duly reminded what gas tastes like -/

and… I now own an expensive little crimper -) because I like the single-use pinch clips better than the screw-down ones… aesthetics, but also just seem to be a cleaner fit. Also, bolt cutters work nicely for removing them, but will want to get something a bit more single-handed sized

Lastly, I will do the fuel filter in my next chance… I thought I did, but realized I didn't have the right clips to do that. I'm not really sure what the expected lifespan on these are… does anyone know?

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Cheers

Dave
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