Dunlop Roadsmarts, Dynabeads, brakes & vibration ? 120 MPH ?

[Daryl.Stamp]

I finished putting a set of Roadsmarts on last night and had a couple of issues;
1. This is only the 2nd full set of tires I've installed myself; first pair was Conti Road Attacks; used Dynabeads w/ no problem, other than getting them in.
2. Installed the Roadsmarts same as Conti's but made a mistake & put 'the dot' opposite the valve stem, not in the same location as the valve stem.
3. One of the beads didn't seat as quickly as the others, didn't seat @ 50+ PSI so I released the air down to zero, sprayed some general purpose surface cleaner on the affected area, re-pressurized to 40 PSI and let it sit for a few minutes and it finally popped on.
4. Installed 2 oz per tire of the Dynabeads per their suggestion for telelever bikes.
5. Test ride gave me some vibration during front braking; Noticed one was hotter than the other so I repeated the assembly torque procedure and realized I'd done the calipers prior to the axle the first time; 2nd test ride seemed OK so I left it for the night. I measured runout on disc @ .003" (thought maybe I accidentally did something to it). Ultimately had to remove the caliper, bleed it, push the pistons all the way back in & did a vacuum bleed. No more vibration, no temp differential.
6. Did a 300 mile ride today and noticed what I believe is an imbalance somewhere; especially @ 65MPH & above.

Questions:
1. Anyone ever have trouble using Dynabeads w/ Roadsmarts?
2. How much difference does 'the dot' location relative to the valve stem? Is this a matter of 'preferred practice' or 'absolute necessity'? I always thought it was an indicator of the the heavy spot, but the rep @ Dynabeads said it was there just to indicate where to locate the tire on the rim (dot closest to valve stem).
3. Does anyone have enough experience w/ Dynabeads to know how much difference dot location makes? I was thinking that maybe if there were two heavy spots separated by 180 degrees that it may affect their correct operation.

Will be doing another 300 miles Sunday; planning on staying off highways the whole way.

Comments appreciated.

DLS

[snowprick]

The dot should next to the valve stem. Get a motorcycle wheel balancer ( try http://www.marcparnes.com/) Forget the beads. Smooth ride for sure.

[harveyrawn]

I finished putting a set of Roadsmarts on last night and had a couple of issues;
1. This is only the 2nd full set of tires I've installed myself; first pair was Conti Road Attacks; used Dynabeads w/ no problem, other than getting them in.
2. Installed the Roadsmarts same as Conti's but made a mistake & put 'the dot' opposite the valve stem, not in the same location as the valve stem.
3. One of the beads didn't seat as quickly as the others, didn't seat @ 50+ PSI so I released the air down to zero, sprayed some general purpose surface cleaner on the affected area, re-pressurized to 40 PSI and let it sit for a few minutes and it finally popped on.
4. Installed 2 oz per tire of the Dynabeads per their suggestion for telelever bikes.
5. Test ride gave me some vibration during front braking; Noticed one was hotter than the other so I repeated the assembly torque procedure and realized I'd done the calipers prior to the axle the first time; 2nd test ride seemed OK so I left it for the night. I measured runout on disc @ .003" (thought maybe I accidentally did something to it). Ultimately had to remove the caliper, bleed it, push the pistons all the way back in & did a vacuum bleed. No more vibration, no temp differential.
6. Did a 300 mile ride today and noticed what I believe is an imbalance somewhere; especially @ 65MPH & above.

Questions:
1. Anyone ever have trouble using Dynabeads w/ Roadsmarts?
2. How much difference does 'the dot' location relative to the valve stem? Is this a matter of 'preferred practice' or 'absolute necessity'? I always thought it was an indicator of the the heavy spot, but the rep @ Dynabeads said it was there just to indicate where to locate the tire on the rim (dot closest to valve stem).
3. Does anyone have enough experience w/ Dynabeads to know how much difference dot location makes? I was thinking that maybe if there were two heavy spots separated by 180 degrees that it may affect their correct operation.

Will be doing another 300 miles Sunday; planning on staying off highways the whole way.

Comments appreciated.

DLS

I think I remember a comment from the Dynabeads site saying that the dot location does not matter when they are used. You might look for it. I am using them with Pilot Roads and have a very smooth ride.

[Beemeridian]

11

[towerworker]

I have dynabeads in my Dunlop D220's with good results. Fast, convienent and inexpensive. I will continue to use them.

Wayne

[Biff's R]

No dynabead, and no weights on my tires. I used the Marc Parnes static balancer, and have to dot on the Pilot Roads about 2 inches from the valve.

2 oz, should be plenty of weight inside the wheel.

[Daryl.Stamp]

Did about 300 miles in a steady, light rain on Friday; seemed pretty secure in the rain but the vibration @ 70+ kept me off the 4-lanes. Sunday the rain was only for the first 150 miles but at times it was a heavy downpour; never felt unstable or slippery as long as I was going at a pace appropriate for the weather.

Today after work I took the rear tire & rim off; unseated the bead on both sides & inspected the beads & the interior of the tire. Nothing sticky (Dynabeads website indicated that some manufacturers use mold release that can cause the beads to clump), no clumped beads, no obvious problems. Reseated tire w/ yellow dot/ring @ the valve stem. Remounted rim on bike; pre-torqued studs to 90 Newton-meters and final torqued to the 105 spec Nm. Took it for a ride on the T-way @ 'slightly above' the speed of traffic & really noticed a difference. Doesn't make any sense to me why it would make a difference; might be just psychological but I don't think so. I still feel some vibration, but it 'seems' to be more RPM related than speed related.

I'm due for another valve adjust & TB sync; would like to get everything ironed out before our trip in Sep to VT, NH, ME.

[snowprick]

Daryl.Stamp

For crying out loud, get a GD balancer, throw the beads and ride your bike. Thats about as easy as I can make it for you, unless you wish to continue this thread into perpetuity.

[riceburner]

2. How much difference does 'the dot' location relative to the valve stem? Is this a matter of 'preferred practice' or 'absolute necessity'? I always thought it was an indicator of the the heavy spot, but the rep @ Dynabeads said it was there just to indicate where to locate the tire on the rim (dot closest to valve stem).

The marker dot meaning depends on the tyre manufacturer (I suggest you talk to tyre people about tyres.... ). Some manufacturers mark the "light" spot, some the "heavy" - which is why you need to talk to the tyre manufacturer or supplier about them.

Obviously the idea is that the marker is adjacent to, or diametrically opposite to the tyre valve location - depending on whether it's the heavy or light spot that is marked. (if heavy - put it opposite the valve location to assist in balancing).

[Beemeridian]

11

[riceburner]

(if heavy - put it opposite the valve location to assist in balancing).

Not trying to thicken-the-Pilot here but;
just pulled the old tire off of a friend's rim before mounting the new tire, balanced the rim alone to find it's heavy spot and, the spot was precisely opposite the valve stem...happens on some rims...
riceburner makes a fine point about the spots; some of them, though few anymore, mark the heavy side. It is good practice to balance the rim alone to reduce the # of variables.

did you have the valve in the wheel??

yeah - wheels are never perfectly balanced in themselves anyway!

This is why you need to the get the whole assembly balanced each and every time you fit a new tyre (and re-checked after the weights have been fitted!!)

[Beemeridian]

11

[Daryl.Stamp]

Update:
- Adjusted valves
- Sync'd TB's
- Mounted both tires w/ mark (dot, circle etc.) @ valve stem

Result: Zen Motorcycling is back. Euphoric.....

& I can even see clearly in my mirrors (better than ever before)

Beemeridian; thanks for the advice on tire installs, I appreciate the input.

For the time being I'm going to stick w/ the beads, it appears that the recovery rate would be around 70% although I just used new packs on this install.

Regards,

DLS

[Beemeridian]

11

[Trout]

I know I'll get a little debate with this information, so I have donned my flame suit. Flame on!

After having balanced about a jillion tires in my lifetime, I've made an observation. This observation is accurate for modern, expensive, finely engineered, name brand, high speed rated tires. This does not apply to retreaded 10-15's on bubba's mudder truck.

In most all cases, the weights go back on in the same place and size as the weights you took off. In other words, the wheel is usually what is slightly out of balance, and not the precision Z rated tire you just put on.

Once you have a spin balance done right, you can change tires and just forget about the balance. Leave the old weights on, align the dot with the stem, mount your new tires, and go riding.

I've proven this theory on several bikes over the years at speeds to 140 mph.

I have a static motorcycle balancer and do not use it, except to check my theory

[Beemeridian]

11

[iowabeakster]

I'm probably going to start doing my own tire changes soon...but I just had one fitted at the dealership this last Saturday, where they spin balance it.

When he brought it back out to me, it had two 30g weights on it. I looked at it, and just couldn't believe it! I wanted to ask him if I could see it put on the spin machine, but I didn't have the guts. It did have two 10g weights on it with the old tire (which was it had at every change before too, although in different locations). This time it had 40g more. I rode it for the first time today, just a quick 20 miles, as I only had about 20 minutes before I came to work. It seemed fine at 70MPH, but I thought this big difference was strange.

[Daryl.Stamp]

Prior to doing it myself, the dealer & a local shop both said they it didn't need to change the amount or location of the weight, adding 1 data point confirming Iowabeakster's post.

DLS

[Trout]

When he brought it back out to me, it had two 30g weights on it. I looked at it, and just couldn't believe it! I wanted to ask him if I could see it put on the spin machine, but I didn't have the guts.

This can be a risk and a challenge... finding a competent tech who gives a damn. They don't pay the level III technicians to mount and balance tires. This duty falls on the rookies. Some are good. Some are not.

Several years ago I went to Sears and bought a set of Michelins for my Suburban. When I went to pick it up, one of the fronts had a big honking 6 ouncer hammered on there. I went and got the manager and brought him out to look. I told him that either my wheel was bent or the tire was defective because there is no way a new Michelin would require that much weight. He agreed with me and took it back off the truck. When he was done, the wheel had a tiny 1 ounce weight. He didn't try to excuse his lazy ass tech, he just apologized profusely.

If you find a tech who you believe to be competent and qualified and who gives a damn, you have found a treasure.

[snowprick]

Calling Mark Parnes, are you there?