FAILED ABS Unit

[celticus]

My brakes work just fine but just NOT as ABS brakes.

Mark

[Bob2go]

Beware! my R1200CL started just that way. The gen warning light stayed on and the ABS light flashed 4 times per sec. Brakes seemed fine, and after a few miles, lights would go off. This was very sporadic, and sometimes could go for a couple of hundred miles with no problems. I guessed it was just a sensor about to give up. Then the brakes failed almost completely. Now, when I turn on, lights flash all the time, brakes fail after 5 minutes. If 'normal' brakes applied, I wouldn't care too much, but BMW 'residual brakes' are the same as 'no brakes' in my world. Not prepared to spend rip-off money on ABS rebuild, so I'm dumping the ABS and converting to straight hydraulics. (Credit to 'sweatmark' for his inspiring article.) I wonder if anyone has actually been killed because of this. If BMW had any decency, they would at least step up to the mark and offer a cheap fix. Doubt if I'll get another BMW.

[slowtorque]

That brake system on your R1200C was the old servo assisted design. And yes, you could wind up with very little braking power. My understanding is that the R12R does not use a servo and is a bit more of a fail safe system in that losing the abs feature does not leave you with little or no braking.......... just like in your automobile.

[uncle BS]

welp - as of 12 noon today count me in on a failed abs pump. meticulously maintained total fluid change out once per yr 40 k on bike. this is just 1 of many many failures on the r1200r. light will come on after 1-2 miles of riding and stay on, no abs action on rear pedal at all, cut bike off everthing recycles to "normal" then after 2 miles -- failure light on no abs.. off to the dealer next tuesday with telephone "assurances" that bmw corporate will absorb some of the cost.... say what you want to folks i have found bmw to be outrageously unreliable, i ve riden 50 yrs forgot how many bikes ive owned an i ride genrally 7 days a week bmw-- bring more wallet.

[uncle BS]

as a follow up-- braking without the abs is fantastic-- i'm not sure the average rider would even notice it was out.

[moto-m]

as a follow up-- braking without the abs is fantastic-- i'm not sure the average rider would even notice it was out.

You're right - the brakes have increased "feel" since the ABS failed, although I do miss the linked braking using only the front brake lever.

I've been trying to do a deal on a new R1200R without ABS before the 2013 model with standard ABS, and it's a bit rich when you have to come to terms with not only having a bike that has a faulty ABS system due to a bad batch of units that were fitted, and then finding that the dealer offers you a sizable chunk of money less because the ABS on your trade-in no longer works!

I do like BMW bikes but unless they start to fit more robust systems, I shall stay away from as many electronic "extras" as possible.

Mike
Cheshire UK

[BoxerSteve]

as a follow up-- braking without the abs is fantastic-- i'm not sure the average rider would even notice it was out.

At least not until one really needed it, as in an emergency braking situation.

[dewi sant]

as a follow up-- braking without the abs is fantastic-- i'm not sure the average rider would even notice it was out.

At least not until one really needed it, as in an emergency braking situation.

If your bike has ABS you ride like it has, if it doesn't you ride like it hasn't. I've been riding bikes since 1967 and only ever had two with ABS - A BMW R1100R and my Honda VFR800 V.tec and I wouldn't climb over a barrel of beer to get another. IMO ABS is simply an unnecessary complication on a motorcycle. I'd read of ABS failures on the R1200 before I bought my R1200R back in Sept 2010 so purposely sought out an non ABS model - funnily enough, I've never had a problem with my ABS pump failing! I've also never felt the need for ABS - yet

So, that's just the bevel box failure and gearbox oil seals to worry about then, oh -and the fuel tank sender strip! In all likelihood, apart from the cafe racer project I intend to start this winter this will be my last motorcycle, as tempus fugits and things start falling off (me not the bikes). But, if I was to buy another it wouldn't be a BMW (and I have had 4 of them if anyone from Bee Em Duubble Yoo does actually read these forums - I'll go back to Jap, they get it mostly right). Apart from the fact that we are now having the choice of whether to ABS or not to ABS taken from us & even though mine's been ok and it is undeniably a superb thing to ride, there are just too many cost cuttng exercises gone on for my liking (e.g poor cheap bevel box design - dubious electronics etc) & BMW will rue the day they ever let the bean counters rule the roost. Like Harley D, they've taken to using cheap far eastern made components - not to keep the cost down to us buyers, but to maximise their own profits and those of the fat cat shareholders. Pop on to the HD forums sometime and see the effect that swapping the Timken roller crank bearings for some cheap Chinese garbage had on warranty claims - or the ommision of a 5p locating dowel in the primary case in the mid 2000s. H.D are are on their a*se as a company with many sales losses which all stem from the issues of 5 - 10 years ago. If you want to sell bikes or cars, and keep on selling them - make 'em reliable, or at least hold your hand up when an inherent design problem arises and fix it. I was looking to change my car recently and considered a BMW, but to be honest they have as many issues as they do with the bikes - which kinda put me off a tad, so I ended up with a Mazda which are just as bad but cheaper to fix!

Oh! And, just a little note on the ABS failures. If the bike is fitted with ABS at manufacture, then here in the UK we can't just put a bit of tape over the light as it has to be 100% working or no MOT. No MOT = No road tax = no usey bikey - unless you want your bike crushed when you get caught. So unless you stump up and get the thing repaired - you've got yourself one very expensive ornament sat in your garage.

Dewi

[hjsbmw]

If your bike has ABS you ride like it has, if it doesn't you ride like it hasn't...So unless you stump up and get the thing repaired - you've got yourself one very expensive ornament sat in your garage.

Dewi

As a first time BMW owner I am still smitten with how much more this bike inspires me to go on a ride to the mountains than any of my Japanese bikes ever did. But I have been lucky so far with not having real problems, and I certainly don't miss tightening and lubing chains.

I do, however, completely agree that the more a bike has, the more can break. I was pretty reluctant to get one with ABS for exactly that reason, but I did due to availability on the used market at the time. Unfortunately there have been a good number of ABS failures reported lately on this and the MOA forum. Does that inspire confidence? Certainly not in me. Having the choice to not get a bike with ABS would indeed be appreciated. Nobody can predict the future, and it's a matter of priorities whether you believe more in the life saving power of ABS or shun the added cost, complexity, and risk of failure.

[BoxerSteve]

If your bike has ABS you ride like it has, if it doesn't you ride like it hasn't.

Well we were talking about the average rider, who more than likely is not going to be able to stop as fast without ABS as with it. In a panic situation the ABS could very well indeed save one's butt; it could make the difference between stopping safely or going down from over braking and skidding, or hitting something. I was not a believer in ABS either, until I bought a bike that has it. My R1200R has amazing, fantastic brakes! But of course there is a price to be paid and that is added complexity, maintenance cost, and the potential for breakdown. And with ABS one has to take the bike to the dealer who has the special equipment required to bleed the brakes. Which is a definite PIB. But it would all be worth it if the ABS saved you from serious injury or death, just one time.

And as far as reliability, they are not perfect of course, no bike is. I've owned a number of BMW's since about 1985 or so and have never been let down, never had a serious problem, never been left stranded by one. I can't say the same for the only Japanese bike I ever owned. I still think BMW makes the best motorcycles. Yes there may have been an inordinate amount of ABS failures reported lately in the forums but we don't usually hear from people who aren't having problems, do we? There are many many people with BMW motorcycles that are rock solid reliable we seldom hear about.

[Bill Stevenson]

Dewi and I share the dubious honor of being old enough to have started motorcycling in 1967. Congrats on that Dewi, keep up the good work. Beyond our shared starting time, though, we have markedly differing positions on some important stuff. For example, having adapted to riding bikes with ABS, I find it difficult to adjust to my bikes that don't have it. I definitely ride ABS equipped bikes more aggressively especially in the rain. Every bike I have owned that was equipped with ABS has had the ABS function on occasion. Meaning every ABS system has saved my heinie. BMW pioneered ABS on motorcycles and they have gone through 4 designs, with each replacement an improvement over the previous one. I don't know how many ABS equipped bikes BMW has sold over the years, but there is no doubt at all that the vast majority of them have been trouble free. Yes special tools are needed to change the brake fluid, and yes ABS equipped bikes are more complex, and yes there is the occasional failure as is clear from this thread. To each his own, but for me the advantages of ABS outweigh the disadvantages and since I like the way BMWs work, look, feel, function etc. I will happily buy another when the time comes without hesitation. To each his own.

[uncle BS]

Dewi and I share the dubious honor of being old enough to have started motorcycling in 1967.- i got you both beat-- not sure thats a good thang but time waits on --NO ONE. Now back to abs failure-- those brakes are fantastic without abs and maybe just maybe the abs can save your butt as referenced to you manually braking- but i'm not convinced... this is prolly gonna be a stupid outrageous repair in cost and i may end up usuing modulemasters-- who knows? one more observation concerning reliability-- in general the r1200r has been PLagued with numerous documented failures................. i dont believe that statement is even contestable.

[BoxerSteve]

one more observation concerning reliability-- in general the r1200r has been PLagued with numerous documented failures................. i dont believe that statement is even contestable.

Do you mean your bike, or R1200Rs in general? Seems to me most here on the forum are pretty happy with their R1200Rs, including me. Well except it doesn't have enough legroom. But it is a FANTASTIC motorcycle in my opinion.

I am sorry to hear you have had troubles with yours. I love mine, except for the legroom problem.

[uncle BS]

r1200r's in general-- numerous issues all well documented...........fact is the r12's have been one of the poorest sellers in the bmw line up.....

[karamazov2]

fact is the r12's have been one of the poorest sellers in the bmw line up.....

That's a problem in the whole naked/standard segment, and not (IMO) indicative of a diminished perception of quality in the model, versus others in the marque.

If anything, low opinion of manufacturing standards or quality control would affect the entire boxer line, if not the brand as a whole - which just isn't the case. GS's continue to fly out the door. And, in the roadster's defense, they just don't ship many stateside. I rarely see one on a showroom floor. Some people have had to go out of state to buy, or order one...

[deilenberger]

Dear Uncle BS (is there something telling about that username?)

I think you're trolling. If so - you got a few to rise to the bait.

R1200R sales - have been quite healthy at US dealerships, to the point that it's hard to find one to buy. In my local club of about 65 members we now have 7 R12R owners. No other model has this proportion of owners.

Reliability? As someone mentioned - the vast majority of people who frequent this forum seem quite happy with their R12Rs. We argue about tires/oil/air-pressure/farkles, but the actual number of threads relating to bike related problems is really low for an Internet forum (I moderate the Hexhead forum on the MOA website, which is MUCH more problem oriented.) So far - 56,xxx miles on mine, it has never let me down. I've had no warranty claims except for fuel strips. I do wear out tires a lot, but that's because I *RIDE* it a lot. It's been more reliable then any other BMW bike I've owned, and wonderfully more reliable then the US and Brit bikes that preceded my BMW obsession.

But - whatever.

For the anti-ABS folks, that's nice, and good luck to you. We won't convince you that it's worth having (at least I won't even try) and you won't convince us that it isn't worth having - so why not just forgeddaboutit..

[moto-m]

I'm not "anti ABS" - I'm anti shelling out a big chunk of dosh again when it goes wrong. I think you can call it "Once bitten - Twice shy". I have reliable ABS on all my other vehicles and I would very much like a new R1200R with reliable ABS - but I'm a realist and BMW doesn't appear to worry too much what people like me think. So, as I like the bike generally, it seems a good idea to eliminate a known problem don't you think - or should I just have blind faith that it won't happen to me again?

By the way, I have known occasions when it has been necessary to brake hard and the rear wheel has been bounced by ripples on the surface of the road and the ABS has released the effectiveness of the front brake which, at the time, was the only thing giving any retardation. Not good. I'm just saying that ABS isn't a golden bullet and won't save you in every situation. It is certainly an asset in the wet though.

Mike
Cheshire UK

[dewi sant]

By the way, I have known occasions when it has been necessary to brake hard and the rear wheel has been bounced by ripples on the surface of the road and the ABS has released the effectiveness of the front brake which, at the time, was the only thing giving any retardation. Not good. I'm just saying that ABS isn't a golden bullet and won't save you in every situation. It is certainly an asset in the wet though.

Mike
Cheshire UK

Mike, before I bought the 1200R I had for a very short time (like a couple of months) an F800ST and this was a probem that was quite widely reported on that model. I never actualy got the ABS to go off on mine so can't comment

Just as an aside, I took my 1200R for it's first MOT last week and got about 1/4 mile from home, braked for an island and hit an oil slick in the road. I don't think it was diesel as I can usually smell that before I reach it. Everything locked up - no panic, release brake and re-apply slowly, drama over. As it happens even when I had ABS bikes it wasn't the answer to everything - the brakes would still lock on a decent oil spill in the rain ABS or not. ABS leads the rider into a false sense of security IMO - "grab a handfull of brake & never worry the ABS will sort it" kind of mentality. The other thing that concerns me about things like ABS is that they dumb down the process of riding and to a greater extent de-skill the whole thing. Every rider should learn on a non ABS bike - on a cold rainy winters day! ABS is fine, but one day it'll stop working as we've seen, sure the brakes will still work fine but if the rider has no experience of non ABS riding then he's gonna be in a whole shed load of trouble before long.

Dewi

[lynnboyd]

Very often a brake fluid change (not forgetting the brake fluid in the ABS unit) fixes the problem with faulty ABS units while dealers say that they need to be replaced.

Has anyone had their brake failure light go off after a brake fluid change? Is it worth having the fluid changed before replacing the pump just in case that's the problem?

On the subject of the reliability of BMW's ABS system, we don't really have the facts to make a judgment. We don't have the numerator, which would be number of failures and the mileage at which they occurred, and even less information on the denominator, which would be total bikes the system has been installed on and their total mileage. I really dislike the idea of paying $1200 or so to fix mine, but the ABS is the reason I bought this bike. It's like insurance - if it never saves you from a major problem it seems like a waste of money, but if you need it it's well worth it. I think I may be talking myself into a really expensive riding suit here.

Lynn

[hjsbmw]

Has anyone had their brake failure light go off after a brake fluid change? Is it worth having the fluid changed before replacing the pump just in case that's the problem?

Yes, I have, but I have also had a fault code (implausible pressure) that suggested it was not a terminal hardware failure. There are a multitude of possible causes that trigger the brake failure light, and changing the fluid will not cure a true hardware problem.

By the way, to anyone inclined to do their own work, a GS-911 is your friend for diagnosing this and other issues on the bike. But you can change the fluid yourself just based on suspicion without the GS-911, and it does not require any other 'special tools'.