Worn Tires = Stiff Handling ??

[Jed]

... a question for the Illuminati:

My 2010 R12R has about 8K miles or so on this set of tires, 32K on the bike overall. I normally run my pressures a bit towards the high end of the range for better tire wear. At this point I've got mild cupping on the front and a smallish (2") but clear flat spot on the rear at the center with this pair of PR2's.

What I seem to be noticing is that as the tires wear it takes more counter-steering pressure on the bars to keep me in a steady-state turn. I'm normally a pretty quick rider that loves cornering at speed while well leaned-over and I'm habitually biased toward the front brake, rarely using the rear for much. I understand what causes the cupping and the flat spot, but what I'm unsure about is if this is the cause of the stiff handling that I seem to notice as the tires near end of life.

I live and ride mostly in NH where the back roads are anything but flat, straight and well-maintained. I find myself on pretty rough pavement most of the time, many would consider this broken pavement I guess. At any rate while running around a corner over rough roads, I tend to use body-english to minimize the counter-steering pressure on the bars. If I only use counter-steering the unevenness of the surface makes the turn much less smooth than if I use more body-english and try to keep the pressure on the bars as light as possible (letting the bike's geometry & lean angle do the work for me).

So finally the question:
Is the above normal? Is this issue specific to the R12R or is this kind of handling degradation common to most bikes as the tires lose their original profile?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Cheers,

Jed

[xprof]

Oh yeah, it's the tires. Get some new ones and you will be back in love! I always push it too far, being frugal, then wish I had swapped out earlier...

[Catchina]

I noticed you are able to use the front brake independently of the rear, does the 2010 not have linked brakes?

[dbrick]

If equipped with ABS:

The brakes are linked front-to-back: Squeezing the front brake lever will apply front and (to a much lesser extent) rear brakes.

The brakes are not linked back-to-front: pressing the rear brake pedal will apply the rear brake only, and will not apply the front brake.

Without ABS, the front and rear brakes are independent.

(Thanks Jed!)

[Jed]

I noticed you are able to use the front brake independently of the rear, does the 2010 not have linked brakes?

My R12R is a non-ABS model. So the brakes are not linked and are fully independent.

Just the way I wanted it. I'm not anti-ABS but I did not particularly want ABS when I bought the bike.

[Ric]

The shape of the tire goes bad long before the tread is worn out; espically if most your riding is in a straight line.
You life depends on them....why pinch pennies in this department !

[Acpantera]

I love to get big miles out of a set of tires, but when I change them out, I always love it, and wonder why I waited so long to get new tires. Tire wear is so gradual that you may not notice any changes in handling in a day to day life. But you can really tell if you haven't been on it for a long time, like after winter storage. After 8,000 miles on those old tires, any new set of new rubber will blow your mind, might even scare you on how fast and easy the bike will fall into turns.

[Jed]

I love to get big miles out of a set of tires, but when I change them out, I always love it, and wonder why I waited so long to get new tires. Tire wear is so gradual that you may not notice any changes in handling in a day to day life. But you can really tell if you haven't been on it for a long time, like after winter storage. After 8,000 miles on those old tires, any new set of new rubber will blow your mind, might even scare you on how fast and easy the bike will fall into turns.

That's basically where I am with these tires. They felt fine, albeit a but slow to turn at the end of last year. First couple of rides this year, the bike felt decidedly not-planted. I know I need to change the tires, it just bugs me that on my bikes the tires lose profile long before I'm even close to wearing out the tread.

At any rate I'm short on cash for tires right now so I'll have to live with the slow handling for a while longer.

Thanks to all for the comments.

Cheers,
Jed

[hjsbmw]

I love to get big miles out of a set of tires, but when I change them out, I always love it, and wonder why I waited so long to get new tires.

So true. I don't enjoy changing tires particularly so tend to max out tire life, but the difference in ease of steering and ride smoothness after putting on a new one always makes me try to convince myself that I will not wait that long again.

[kirby]

*

[Acpantera]

I've done sport tires and long lasting touring tires on the roadsters. I have found that the Conti-Motions is a good blend of wear/grip/price. I have got from 4k to 6k on them, the chicken strips are thin, and the pry on and of fairly easy.

[PaulLP]

On my 2012 I had 8600 miles on the original Bridgestone 21 tires, still had a little depth left on the tread, but the rear was getting the flattened center profile so decided to pop for a set of Michelin PR3's. Can't begin to tell you how much better the bike handles now, including handling of road irregularities, dropping into curves, and everything else.

[garr2]

New set of tyres... Beeeyootifull!

Ian

[Snapping Twig]

I just tossed the OEM 21's at 6000 miles. Still had @ 2K left, but I never really liked 'em. They were sketchy in anything other than sedate riding. This bike is capable of so much more than that.

Put some PR 3's on and the difference is extreme. They ride softer and grip harder, much more compliant.

I expect to get 7K+ on the rear. I'd imagine the front would go twice that, but we'll see.

[Woland]

I just tossed the OEM 21's at 6000 miles. Still had @ 2K left, but I never really liked 'em. They were sketchy in anything other than sedate riding. This bike is capable of so much more than that.

Put some PR 3's on and the difference is extreme. They ride softer and grip harder, much more compliant.

I expect to get 7K+ on the rear. I'd imagine the front would go twice that, but we'll see.

I got almost 12k on my last set of PR3's, the rear was pretty flat at that point. But that's with me being somewhat heavy (275pounds) and I've also been known to have twisted the throttle once or twice.

New tires are nice

[fleuger99]

I've got a 2012 R1200R that came with Metzler Z8's. I'm just shy of 11400 miles and still on original tires. My front is perfect and I plan on changing the rear at my 12K service. However, I'm yet to feel any performance degredation in my tires. I keep them inflated at the manual recommended pressures. Also, by far the largest percentage of my mileage is interstate riding for both long trips (last was 2400 miles in a week) and my work commuting which is 94 miles per day with 90% again being interstate.

I got an awesome deal on a new set of Z8's which are sitting in my basement awaiting mounting. I love these tires and they have done really well for me mileage wise.

[Karamazov]

I've got a 2012 R1200R that came with Metzler Z8's. I'm just shy of 11400 miles and still on original tires. My front is perfect and I plan on changing the rear at my 12K service. However, I'm yet to feel any performance degredation in my tires. I keep them inflated at the manual recommended pressures. Also, by far the largest percentage of my mileage is interstate riding for both long trips (last was 2400 miles in a week) and my work commuting which is 94 miles per day with 90% again being interstate.

I got an awesome deal on a new set of Z8's which are sitting in my basement awaiting mounting. I love these tires and they have done really well for me mileage wise.

Perfect example of how varied experiences with tires can be...

My bike came with Z8s stock. I've always gotten 10k out of my rears (on sport touring tires). My Z8s were down to cord at just under 7k. I also found them very unpredictable in rain, and slippery as heck on tar snakes. I was forced to get a replacement Z8, as that's all my dealer had in stock and I wasn't keen on running on cords. I have a set of Pirelli Scorpion Trails waiting at the dealership now, I'm looking forward to giving those a go. After that, I hope to throw on a set of TKC80's for a fall U.P. trip.

But more to the topic, there's absolutely no question, a new set of shoes will change your life. It's night and day to go from fighting a squared off tire in the twisties to a new, round and grippy tire.

[fleuger99]

I've got a 2012 R1200R that came with Metzler Z8's. I'm just shy of 11400 miles and still on original tires. My front is perfect and I plan on changing the rear at my 12K service. However, I'm yet to feel any performance degredation in my tires. I keep them inflated at the manual recommended pressures. Also, by far the largest percentage of my mileage is interstate riding for both long trips (last was 2400 miles in a week) and my work commuting which is 94 miles per day with 90% again being interstate.

I got an awesome deal on a new set of Z8's which are sitting in my basement awaiting mounting. I love these tires and they have done really well for me mileage wise.

Perfect example of how varied experiences with tires can be...

My bike came with Z8s stock. I've always gotten 10k out of my rears (on sport touring tires). My Z8s were down to cord at just under 7k. I also found them very unpredictable in rain, and slippery as heck on tar snakes. I was forced to get a replacement Z8, as that's all my dealer had in stock and I wasn't keen on running on cords. I have a set of Pirelli Scorpion Trails waiting at the dealership now, I'm looking forward to giving those a go. After that, I hope to throw on a set of TKC80's for a fall U.P. trip.

But more to the topic, there's absolutely no question, a new set of shoes will change your life. It's night and day to go from fighting a squared off tire in the twisties to a new, round and grippy tire.

Agreed on the tar snakes, I definitely feel those and am cautious when cornering. In the rain, I've had totally different experiences. When coming back from my long trip last summer, riding Toronto Canada to Boston in one shot with stops just for fuel and hydration we got caught in a severe thunderstorm two hours from home. The bike/tires handled the downpour extremely well even with two full side cases and a waterproof duffle bag on the back. It was really confidence inspiring. I'm definitely a Z8 fan

Let us know how you like the Scorpions once you have them for a while.