More F800ST pics *me likey*

[cricman]

The ST looks pretty nice. I assume, since it's billed as a Sport Tourer, the bags are included. If not, they look like they weigh about $900 without the fancy luggage rack. As has been said already, the price is a make or break issue. Suzuki has carved out a nice niche with their 650 and 1000 V-Stroms, and have done so at a very hard-to-beat price point ($6700-$9000). Of course an F800GS might be an interesting way to cut into Suzuki's pie.

cricman

[dallara]

Well, the R-1200-ST doesn't come with bags...

So I would be willing to bet the F-800-ST won't come with bags either. In fact, I doubt they would sell it with bags as standard equipment as it wouold jack the price too high.

We'll see, though.

Cheers!

Dallara

[Optimus Prime]

looking at the two, it appears the main differences are

*fairing lowers
*bags
*luggage rack
*different handlebars
*taller screeen

3 bolt on additions and 2 simple swaps. Unless the ST has cruise or something similiar the price should be close to the S otherwise you could just buy the S and mod it up...

[PearlyWhite]

Might be a stoopid comment - but if we're talking about the touring part of sport touring - I'm not sure I want any less mass than I have with Pearly on the superslab. It might be a lack of experience on my part, but it makes me nervous to be blown around the interstate on a bike....

[Boxer]

Does anyone know if the F-series still has a lease on life with the new 800s coming to town?

Blurb in an ON says that Aprilia will take over making the 650 again in 2007...So I guess she'll still be around

[leno]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/16november05_2006bmw.htm


Of course BMW uses dry weight claims which probably doesn't include the battery.

BMW are one of the more truthful manifactures, they quote with battery, oil and brake fluid. The only thing they leave out is the petrol. Unlike some jap bikes which have to put a lot of pounds on to be able to run.

The S look just the sort of bike I should have so I hope it's good. I like the looks a lot better then the 1200ST.

As for the 650's I think there will be some cut down on the range but it will keep going. Well in Europe any way as it sells very well here.

[new2BMW]

BMW are one of the more truthful manifactures, they quote with battery, oil and brake fluid.

the US BMW page has wet and dry weights listed. I was referring to the dry weight since that is what the magazines use.

[riceburner]

You know... I kinda like the 800S.

Wonder if there's a hard bag option?

I could be tempted. Maybe if Ms. Argentina was to ask me reeeal nice like.

George

The pictures show it wearing the K1200 hard-panniers.

We have these for my wife's K12R and they're pretty good. One annoyance though is that the back wall of the pannier (the part that's closest to the bike) as really curved into the pannier. On the K12S this is necessary to clear the bodywork. But on the K12R and the F800ST this is NOT going to be necessary and it's a waste of volume. If BM ever introduce pannier halves that are flat we'll be attempting to trade ours in.

[gelbe Kulter]

Can I come and watch?

Sure.
Then I'll weigh bike and rider! Total wt:hp ratio. With prizes for highest and lowest.

[dallara]

I dunno'...

To me, something is being lost here. I know BMW is still going to be making the "Hexheads", but still...

The old K-bikes, with their longitudinal, lay-down "flying brick" fours had something that separated them from everyone else... And needless to say, BMW's loyalty to the "Boxer" layout has been much of their brand's character.

Now we get the "new" K-bikes, with their transverse, DOHC, four-valve, fuel-injected inline fours... An engine configuration that sounds so, well, Japanese. Yes, there is still shaft drive, and the Hossack-style front end, but in the end the engine is just "another" inline four...

And then here comes the F-800 series... Where, really, is the BMW *character* in it? The engine is not even a BMW, but a Rotax... It has conventional forks (and not even upside-down ones, at that!) so no real BMW *identity* in the suspension layout... Belt drive? Well, that's been done a bunch, and long before Beemer adopted it on their "other" Rotax sub-contractor model - the F-650, by Kawasaki and Harley both.

Personally, I never truly considered the F-650's a "true" BMW, but simply a sub-contracted model BMW felt they *had* to build to get some entry-level customers on their brand.

I see the new F-800 parallel twin series in much the same light. To be sure, they will be nice bikes, and no doubt wonderfully competent motorcycles... But to me they will never carry the same BMW "cachet" yet will still be burdened with the dreaded "Roundel Tax" - i.e. They will cost more than they are really worth just to carry the BMW Roundel.

I realize this isn't going to be a popular opinion to voice around here, but am I really the only one who doesn't really *see* these new F-800's as honest-to-God BMW's?

Cheers! (and yes, I have my Nomex, fireproof riding gear on! )

Dallara

[arkline]

Forget the F series for a moment...

Is the reason that BMW chose to go with that transverse in-line four because potential customers would be weirded out by the Brick? God knows when the Brick first showed up, customers stayed away in droves. Is the move to more "traditional" engine configurations a bow to those who just cannot see the beauty in the boxer?

How much technological sophistication could have been stuffed into the K engine? Or the Boxer? In other words, is the radical departure from the traditional BMW a concession to what the buyer is really looking for or is it a technological tour-de-force that just happens to mimic the Japanese solution to what an engine should be?

[dallara]

Who knows, Arkline...

Only the powers that be within BMW know how they evaluate such things.

If they were "bowing" to market trends, then why did they miss the mark so far in the power output of the new K-bikes? Surely they have the technology to produce plenty of beans (just look at Formula 1). They billed the new K-1200-S as a "Hayabusa-Beater", but fell way short of the mark...

Is it because that was never truly their target, or because they really didn't want to end up in a power race with the Japanese, or for some other reason only they know?

I dunno'... Speculation is all we can do there.

But all of that is really not my point. At least the new K-bikes are completely designed and built by BMW, even if they do seem to follow the established trend in the motorcycling marketplace.

So to un-forget the F-bikes... Look at how little of them invokes any part of the BMW patterns or mystique. Conventional front ends, conventional rear ends, no shaft drive, water-cooled parallel twins designed and developed by an outside sub-contractor (Rotax), etc., etc., etc.... The only thing that makes them a BMW is the badge on the bodywork...

At least that's how I see it... They could say Aprilia, or Rotax, on the bodywork and be just as valid.

Cheers!

Dallara

[arkline]

Well, I've got to admit that the F series doesn't ooze the mystique of the roundel, 'though it has several plastered on it. And the T series seems the same way. I think originally the F was almost like a rebadge of the Pegaso, so invoking Aprilia is dead-on. But the traditional BMWs, especially the Boxers, are viewed by a lot of people as being just plain weird ('specially here in the US where there is a strong psychological image of what motorcycle means - pahtata, pahtata, you know). I would imagine that it is hard to sell weird (or quaint or goofy) to the un-cognoscenti.

I do have a couple of things that I think are nice about the F. One is that it is a lot of fun to bomb around on. The other is that it was the onliest bike Donna really looked at after she got her endorsement.

[dallara]

Hey, don't misunderstand, Arkline...

As I said, I am sure the new F-series twins will be fine, competent, enjoyable, and reliable motorcycles, just as the previous F-series singles were. There isn't anything wrong (in my eues) with liking one, or wanting one. If the shoe fits, wear it, and all that...

The new F-series just doesn't seem much like a BMW to me... It is mor elike BMW is "licensing" their name to a completely different product, much like Harley-Davidson licenses their name to badge a Ford pick-up truck.

That's all...

BTW, I know Donna a bit now, so I hope I can ask this question... Would Donna, or even your daughter - Alex - be the least bit offended, or feel they were somehow "degraded" by, some of the recent posts and pictures that have been the subject of recent controversy?

Thanks!

Dallara

[arkline]

BTW, I know Donna a bit now, so I hope I can ask this question... Would Donna, or even your daughter - Alex - be the least bit offended, or feel they were somehow "degraded" by, some of the recent posts and pictures that have been the subject of recent controversy?

Offended? I imagine disappointed would be a better word. They both really object to having womenhood boiled down to the the barest minimum of physical attributes. They are both realists however and know that it isn't going to go away anytime soon. Various women who have visited this site have voiced similar opinions.

[Optimus Prime]

Back on topic. Still a little thin on Info (Dean-O?) But more pics... from http://mopped.michaelbense.de/index.php?cat=10

[tipstall]

Those gray side bags a nice. The old style solid black are nice but those update the look.

Whats with the bump on the seat?

I like the looks of it.