Clutch Problem

[zooomart]

My 04 R has 8,880 miles on it and had the clutch fluid changed by the dealer in March of this year. On my way up to Michigan last week the clutch action seemed to change not fully disengaging until the pull lever was squeezed hard against the grip. Related or not I noticed at the time the idle speed cable adjustment was loose, like came apart. I tighten it back up.

Now when the bike gets warm/hot, it will not down shift properly in the lower gears. Need to double or triple clutch with high effort on the gear lever. This is new. I called the dealer and booked the first open date for May 29th.
The clutch fluid level is mid bubble. The mechanic said that he was surprised how dirty the fluid was back in March. Bought the bike with 3600 miles on it. Could I be heading for a major doctor bill?

[CycleRob]

Problems with the clutch fluid are influenced more by the age of the fluid than the odometer reading. Mid window fluid level is OK unless the bike is leaned way over on the sidestand and you jerk the bars while squeezing the clutch lever. That would move the fluid to one side instead of covering the feed hole and inhale a tiny air bubble. That'll give you the symptoms you have. It's a long shot, but for some unlucky people it can and does happen.

There is an easy way to purge a clutch master cylinder air bubble any time the bike is stopped without taking anything apart. It can firm up a soft lever you've gotten used to that still functions OK, but with a tiny trapped air bubble in the banjo bolt fitting or the piston bore itself. It requires you lean the bike to properly orientate the master cylinder so the air bubble's path is up and out the internal bleed-back hole. This technique works on any bike with a clutch master cylinder, with only pullback cruiser handlebars having issues because of the weird way they are tilted. Here's what you do:

1 - Sitting on the bike, grab the front brake to keep the bike from rolling.
2 - Turn the steering full right lock and keep it there.
3 - Lean the bike as far as you can to the right without loosing it.
4 - Squeeze the clutch lever about a quarter of full travel in-and-out about 30 times with a full release pause about 1 second between squeezes. Squeeze in slowly, release it quickly.
5 - After just a few squeezes you should feel a change in firmness and the point of actuation.
6 - Smile bigtime and go for a ride.

Air can also be generated by grungy bacteria growing in the minute amount of water absorbed by the 3 or 4 year old DOT-4 fluid. Engine heat kills this stuff, but a bike in storage or one infrequently ridden is an easy target. Just like the tiny bubbles in beer. This grunge can stay in place on a bleeding operation as a film on the internal walls of the system, usually in the lowest point, the slave cylinder bore. Removing the master cylinder and especially the slave for disassembly and cleaning borderlines on major surgery, so make this a last resort all else has failed choice.

On the scheduled clutch bleed I run thru 3 reservoir fills of fluid once a year and the system stays clean. When bleeding, squeeze the lever to the bar and release the bleeder screw rapidly to aid in removal of stagnant fluid hiding in the corners.

[Sunbeemer]

Probably just needs to be re-bled to get some trapped air out of the lines.
That's wierd about the high-idle cable...they shouldn't have needed to touch that to just bleed the clutch, probably was just loose before you noticed it.

[zooomart]

Thanks for the help Rob, I will give this a try. Seems odd that this would show up 700 or so miles after a clutch fluid change. But such is life. I will report back tomorrow after I give this a try. Reminds me of a shaking your left leg and tilting and shaking your head to get water out of your right ear.

[zooomart]

I wanted it to work, but alas it is not to be. I thought the tweaking of the clutch as described by Cyclerob ( thanks!) helped firm it up some when cold. Today was in the mid 80's and after a 20 minute ride I went from a sticky clutch to no clutch at all
I have a doctor appt at the dealer next week. I could try to bleed the clutch myself and maybe save the trip, but since the the dealer just did a clutch fluid change in March, I might just have leave it to them to sort out.
Damn right when I have some time to ride

[CycleRob]

zooomart

I had the same problem with the clutch release going to an air squeeze right after I put the GS HandGuards on. Turns out the left HandGuard wasn't tight enough, rotated upward and touched the clutch lever. After a while it was actually preventing the lever from going to full release. Zero freeplay at the slave apparently caused the pushrod to rotate. The hours of spinning overheated the DOT-4 fluid and it boiled, filling the system with air. I didn't realize what the root cause was until I started to perform the sacrificial bleeding and felt the lever hitting the bottom inside surface of the HandGuard. The fluid was a hazy silverish in color indicating Aluminum wear.

When I got home from the air lever ride a multi reservoir refill bleed purged the mess and there was never a problem again. Removing the slave to replace any parts involves a lot of disassembly to get parts out of the way, like raising the frame, so when my spline grease scheduled for this winter happens, I'll at least replace the slave seal.

Do you have HandGuards on your bike?

[zooomart]

Thanks Cyclerob,this is quite interesting.
I just got back from the dealer. The DOT 4 clutch fluid was full of silver particulate as you indicated. They suggest that when they changed the fluid out in March, must of somehow got the slave cylinder seals jammed and now the slave cylinder must be replaced. Hmmmm
The bike new went into service 8/30/03. I bought it 9/05 with 3700 miles on it. At some point BMW changed the service interval for clutch fluid from every two years to every four years. So even though I was five months early I had the fluid changed in march. Now I have a bad slave cylinder which is $130.00 for the part and 2.5 hours labor.

Since I have owned the bike it has never sat for more than 3 weeks without a good 20+ mile run in the winter. 4 or 5 rides a week in the summer, plus some trips like the beakster bash! , which I missed this year

Since the bike has 8800 miles on it, I suggested to the dealer that I would appreciate some support from BMW. I suggested that BMW cover the parts and I cover labor. The dealer was quite sure BMW would offer nothing. I'm wondering since BMW changed the service interval to four years could they have changed the material of construction of the slave cylinder from AL to AL plus a coating, or SST? The bike is out of warrenty but I changed the fluid at 3 years, 7 months. I suppose the first owner ( kept it completely stock) could of rode 3700 miles in the first year and it sat for a whole second year, which would be worse case. Bad luck for sure but heads up to everyone that waiting 4 years to change the clutch fluid isn't a good idea no matter whatt BMW says.

[Daryl_stamp]

They salesman (great guy) that took me for a test ride told me if it didn't go into first on the first try to let the clutch lever out all the way & then back in. Has worked well enough for me that I haven't noticed not going into 1st (or maybe I'm used to this bit of 'character').

DLS

[Sunbeemer]

Good advice Zooomart. Here in hot, humid Florida, I change both brake and clutch fluid every year, and know some that do it every 6 months!

[zooomart]

Well the problem was a transmission seal leak that bled tranny oil into the clutch fluid and caused the failure of the aux. cylinder. I changed the transmission and final drive oil when I bought the bike in September 2005 at 3700 miles. I used Mobil 1 75-140. dealer suggested that using Syn can cause leaks... Seems like a cop out in this case. I will see how they ( dealer/BMW) handle it before I get my panties in a twist. Anyone have this issue and how was it resolved? thanks for any comments

[gel9001]

any chance you can post instuctions on clutch fluid change. I had a bunch of work done on my bike a few months ago under warranty, Splines new clutch etc. and bike worked great, now I'm double and triple pumping the clutch to downshift. Bike is 2004 with 25 and fluid never changed out. I hope a fluid change will fix problem, hope its not that they left something screwey when they did the repair.

Do you have a link or your own instrctions on how to do the fluid change?

[zooomart]

Dear Gel9001
I have not changed it myself, the dealer has, Here is a link to repair manual that was posted here a while back http://web.mac.com/joefinn/iWeb/Site%2013/TechMan.html

Did you mean the bike has 25K miles on it?

[zooomart]

Hey Sunbeemer,
The answer to your April post about your clutch fluid smelling like 90W... Well may be because the tranny fluid IS in the clutch fluid. The tranny leak past the seal didn't take long( <2,000 miles with new clutch fluid) to ruin my slave cylinder. Not sure you can do anything about the leak but if the shifting gets sticky... you will know where to look.

Got zero support from the dealer on this case. Said the BMW rep wouldn't call him back. Dealer's position as I hear it: I bought ithe bike used, it is out of warrenty and I put mobil 1 in the gearbox which is the most likely reason the seal failed. Dealer sez I need to get that evil Mobil one out of the tranny. Horse Hockey

The bike runs great, shifts like butter and I was all smiles within 20 miles from the dealer. How can I stay mad at the folks that built such a sweet machine. I will feel less altruistic when the Visa bill shows

[def38]

Well the problem was a transmission seal leak that bled tranny oil into the clutch fluid and caused the failure of the aux. cylinder. I changed the transmission and final drive oil when I bought the bike in September 2005 at 3700 miles. I used Mobil 1 75-140. dealer suggested that using Syn can cause leaks... Seems like a cop out in this case. I will see how they ( dealer/BMW) handle it before I get my panties in a twist. Anyone have this issue and how was it resolved? thanks for any comments

Your dealer should guard his words. BMW sells premium gear oil for use in their transmission and final drive. It is 75W-140 synthetic GL-5 rated. I have some left. It is red in color. Any good name brand GL-5, 75W-140 will work fine. Synthetic lubricants do NOT cause leaks…damaged seals do.

I add 10% moly to my gear oils to eliminate seal failure, decrease friction and quiet gear noise.

[duckdave]

def38

Can you give some details about the moly (brand source). I looked for some last year for my K75 and could never find any, even at a pretty big motorcycle parts place.

Thanks,
-duckdave

[def38]

def38

Can you give some details about the moly (brand source). I looked for some last year for my K75 and could never find any, even at a pretty big motorcycle parts place.

Thanks,
-duckdave

Dave,

Here is the link. http://www.guarddogmoly.com/

These folks are close by and know their moly additives. Also, they package in quantities for us motorcyclists.

Good luck.

DF

[duckdave]

def38,
Thanks for the info. I will look into it for sure.
-dd