new bike, hesitant to start

[bbill]

we just bought a used 2002 R1150 R with 20,000 miles. the dealer said he put in a new battery. This bike doesn't start well in this cold weather. You have to crank it three or four times until it fires. then crank it a couple of more times and it will fire some more, but then to get it to run you have to open the throttle a little. all this time I have the "choke" or fast idle lever full up and am holding it. This is contrary to they way my K bike started and even my R100 starts better than this. Is this the nature of the beast?? if not, anyone have ideas where I should start?? I actually suspect the battery as it doesn't seem to crank as fast as I think it should. It seems to me it is not getting the proper enrichment for cold starting, but I don't know how that controlled. I have a lot to learn about this bike. thanks for any help, Bill

[Hawk]

BBill, how cold is cold? Makes a difference in evaluating your situation. Also, do you know what kind of new battery was installed?

[NoRRmad]

Sounds like it needs an idle adjustment and a throttle body sync. It should idle at 1100RPM once warmed up, with the "fast idle" lever all the way down. I'd start by resetting the Motronic unit. (Pull the fuse for one minute, reinsert it, key on, -- don't start the engine -- then roll the throttle to full-on twice. This will calibrate the throttle position sensor, which may be set wrong.)

[bbill]

Cold means in this case about 30 degrees F. I think it should start right up in temps like this. Bill

[bbill]

It does idle at about 1100 when warm. Bill

[NoRRmad]

Considering it starts, then dies, and does this multiple times, it's probably not the battery. If it idles at 1100 RPM when warm, with the 'fast idle' lever all the way down, it's probably not the idle adjustment, though a valve tune and throttle sync can't hurt. Neither could the Motronic reset.

Maybe the oil is too thick, or mucked up with deposits enough to produce too much drag on an idling engine. This would become less of a problem when it heats up. Does pulling in the clutch change anything? The too-thick oil could be in the transmission. Even with the bike in neutral, there's still a lot of gears in there thrashing around in the oil.

I don't start my bike much when it's 30 degrees (F,) but I have done it, and it did start right up.

[rockstercliff]

My Rockster is harder to start when the temperature drops also,the oil is thicker. I switched to Mobil1 this past summer, not sure of the starting impact yet in the cold, but having switched to Mobil1 in my autos many years ago, I can testify that they are a little easier to start in the cold weather. Plus, we have in Pa. the blended gas which makes every vehicle crank a little longer to ignite, at least to my experience.

[bbill]

I wouldlike to know exactly what the cold start lever does, what is its function?? I know it is not a "choke" in the normal sense. Is it mechanical or does it send a signal to the motronic to send more gas to the injectors, or is it just a electronic fast idle??? I don't suppose there is any adjustment on it???? Bill

[NoRRmad]

The cold start lever pulls on the throttle cables. It's just like turning the grip a bit when starting. If you check under the tank, you'll see a mechanical junction box where the cable from the throttle grip goes in, and the cold start cable goes in, and the two throttle-body cables come out.

[CycleRob]

bbill,

The "choke" lever is only a chosen RPM fast idle lever. It does NOT change the fuel mixture, so you can even use it on the first detent to start a warm or even a hot engine. The Motronic computer under the fueltank determines the fuel ratio based on inlet air and engine oil temperature sensors.

In 30 degF the engine needs a little throttle in addition to the cold start lever to the full on stop, especially if you are using 20W-50 weight oil. Your profile is blank, so we have no idea where you live . . . . maybe in a place that might be burdened with environmentally friendly, low vapor pressure, 10% ethanol gasoline. All 3 of those things together WILL give you the reluctant cold starting you are getting.

With a 30F cold engine the fast idle start lever ("choke") in the fully on position should give you 1,300+RPM after about 15 seconds running time. If it doesn't, there's too much fast idle cable freeplay. You make that cable freeplay adjustment after sliding the cable's rubber cover, that's on the underside of the left handlebar switchgear, a couple inches away from the end to expose the threaded locknut. Then gently pull that fast idle cable away from the switchgear to test the amount of freeplay. You should feel the point where it tries to open the throttles. Use the threaded adjuster to remove all the freeplay without being "tight", then tighten the locknut. Check your work later on with the engine running to confirm that it does NOT add any increased idle speed throttle in the start lever's off position when the steering is turned fully lock-2-lock.


.

[bbill]

thanks for all the replies. As I said, I am a completer newby to this bike and have a lot to learn. I tried resetting the motronic, but of course there is no diagram anywhere I can find as to WHAT fuse to pull. No diagram under the seat or around the fuse box, no diagram in the operators manual. somewhere else I found some advice to pull fuse no. 5. Since they are not numbered, I pull the 5th fuse from the left. Don't know if that reset the motronic or not.
There does seem to be some play in the fast idle cable, the lever moves quite a bit before there is any movement at the throttle body. I will try and adjust that. Bill

[taosports]

...I tried resetting the motronic, but of course there is no diagram anywhere I can find as to WHAT fuse to pull. No diagram under the seat or around the fuse box, no diagram in the operators manual.

Bill,

Looks like you pulled the correct fuse. Here's a photo you should file away for future reference.

[tkm]

I have the same problem with the bike not wanting to start up anywhere below 40 degrees. This in spite of a recent dealer tuneup where every thing was adjusted to factory spec. I live in northern Cal where we have winter blend gas. The bike is an 04 with 45000 miles on it and it turns over just fine when I push the starter button and runs just fine once warmed up. It's getting to that point which is the hard part. Any ideas? Thanks.................Peter

[bbill]

thanks taosports for the picture. I need to get some kind of shop manual, probably start with a clymer. too many things I don't know.
If this is a problem with all these bikes, there must be a fix. The thing I can think of is to fool the computer into thinking it is colder out than it really is, then the motronic would shoot more gas in there. could do that by putting a resistor in series or parallel with the temp sensor. wire it up with a momentary contact switch. Now, of course I don't yet know where the sensor is, whether the wiring is available, whether the computer would be fooled or not, etc, etc, etc., or for that matter, whether the temp sensor even works on resistance these days. May be too modern for me. If it is just the nature of the beast, then may have to live with it, however my friend has an 1150RT and he says it starts right up when it is cold.
I guess we are a bit strange wanting it to start in 30 degree weather, but we live in New Mexico and a 30 degree morning often warms up to a 70 degree, (maybe 60) day and so that is not a day to be wasted.
Bill

[ruddy]

I live in the Spokane, WA area, where we have real winters with cold temperatures. My '03 with nearly 38K miles starts up w/o much cranking when it's nearly down to freezing. I'm sure it would start when it's colder, but we have too much "black ice" around here for me to ride in freezing weather. My last dealer tuneup was at 24K miles before I bought the bike.

My starting technique is to hold the "choke" lever up until the engine starts. I then let it drop to the middle position until the idle speed picks up to about 2K RPM. That's when I push it down to the bottom position. The longest time this usually takes is until I put my gloves on and back the bike out of the garage and close the door.

Remember these bike were built in Germany where they have cold winters, too. I'm sure the engineers design them to handle the weather. If you're having trouble starting in the 40s F, you definitely need to look at your throttle body adjustments.

[bbill]

we may be talking about minor differences here. I kinda expected this to start like the K1100LT I had. It seemed it would just start at any temp, at any time, without any fuss at all. I kind of expected this one to do the same without a lot of cranking and fussing. Bill

[NoRRmad]

There does seem to be some play in the fast idle cable, the lever moves quite a bit before there is any movement at the throttle body. I will try and adjust that. Bill

I think you got it.

[tkm]

As far as my bike is concerned the throttle bodies are adjusted to factory specs. Fuel and air filters are fresh. The spark plugs are also clean with gaps well within range. Once warmed up the bike runs smooth and strong as its always done. I follow the recomended cold start procedures to the letter but the bike will just not start in the cold German design or not. When not in use the bike sits outside under a cover and since this problem always occurs very early in the morning when it's generally damp I wonder if it could be a problem with spark plug wire leakage. Any ideas? Thanks...............Peter

[bbill]

well, I adjsuted the fast idle cable and it starts a little better, but not like I think it should. Who knows??????? I am going to try shooting a little ether (starting fluid) into the air horn and see what happens. If it starts right up, then I figure it is a fuel problem, either not enough or just too much ethanol in it. you know they formulate fuels for summer and winter weather and if you have summer fuel in your tank, either because it is old fuel or there was residual summer fuel in the stations tanks, it will be harder to start. Bill

[MikeCam]

Bill,

I've followed this thread. I agree with your latest assessment. The Motronic 2.4a reads several inputs when starting. But it cannot account for the 47 varieties of gas sold across the U.S. Inevitably, some of these bikes start effortlessly, some with effort.

The only things I have done to insure hotter starts is: 1) clean air snorkle and air filter (or open it up), 2) best gas I can buy, fresh and clean (not as easy as it sounds), 3) hotter sparking plugs kept clean and gapped, 4) battery always topped off well above 12.5 volts state of charge, 5) valve adjust, TBS (and TPS dead on).

I do long for the older days that seemed so much simpler with mechanical bikes rather than electro-mechanical-computer controlled bikes. But I also remember kick starting forever sometimes on my old bikes.