BMW quality - and CLUTCH SPLINES and Integral ABS

[sweatmark]

Ok, probably got your attention - at least you long-timers.

Like many of you, in addition to this fine message board, I frequent ADVrider and the GSpot/Oilhead section http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3, since the R1150GS and R1150R are fraternal twins. FWIW - my old addage is that the R and GS have identical drivetrains, but with different purpose, like James Bond getting launched from submarine (GS) to board the evil genius' yacht, and then unzipping his wetsuit to reveal tuxedo (that's the Roadster) suitable for some Bond-babe tête–à–tête at the big soirée.

I seldom post in ADV, but find the forum an excellent and recommended resource... along with the added spice & humor interjected by interesting ADV contributors. Middle finger salutes notwithstanding.

One of the threads I follow (via topic subscription) is a subject near & dear to all R1150** folks:
"Failed input shaft splines R1150GS 12,800 miles"
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207014

I noted this morning that one contributor - who happens to have an excellent well-founded perspective on BMW mechanical matters IMHO - offered some thoughts on the issue of BMW quality, both within ADV and (as referenced within the above topic) on his own shop's web site:

http://www.affordablebeemerservices.com/bmwthoughts/

I consider this person's comments to be world-class and "spot-on".... and in spite of the inherent flaws built into our bikes, I'm just stubborn enough (stupid enough?) to vow to keep my R1150R Rockster running forever... well, as long as there people & shops like Afforable Beemer Service out there helping us out.

[MoonBeemer]

Not a pretty picture.

[Keppelj]

Hard for me to know what to make of this. I don't remember BMW recommending a spline lube every 20k miles for the 75/5 and I definitely didn't do it to mine. Based on the incidence of spline problems he's seen and heard of Paul Glaves suggests routinely lubing our RR splines at 40k miles as a likely time to avoid most typical failures. I can't imagine BMW recommending that and expect to sell bikes. They wouldn't sell based on customer conditioning which now expects to go 10k miles between oil changes. I have had four oil heads BMW's personally and apart from minor surging problems have never had trouble any of them. For all their reputed reliability, I now find the airheads pretty wooden and dull to ride and much prefer the power, sharper handling, and especially the brakes of modern BMWs.

[iowabeakster]

Thanks Sweatmark.

The "thoughts about bmw" @affordablebeemerservices page was enlightening, or very disturbing... I'm not sure.

If the claims about the change in philosophy (and attitude towards the customer) at the motorcycle division are even SOMEWHAT accurate...

The truth is... I really am afraid that there is substantial truth to the claims. But whatever, with the way BMW is increasing prices and upgrading models, BMW is pricing themselves out of any chance I might ever buy another.

[riceburner]

Anyone know why the affordablebeemer website is down?

[sweatmark]

Anyone know why the affordablebeemer website is down?

Just clicked link to check: web pages loaded without problem.
If I lived in New England, Affordable Beemer would get my business.

Similar to Keppelj's comment, I've owned 5 oilheads and had few issues thus far (but not trouble-free)... that's with more preventive maintenance/modifications than one might expect or deem necessary, especially for the 1150s.

Crazy thing is, I really like these oilheads. "Stockholm syndrome"?

But whatever, with the way BMW is increasing prices and upgrading models, BMW is pricing themselves out of any chance I might ever buy another.

Well put, iowa. All the more reason to stubbornly maintain the 1150s for as long as possible.

[grwrockster]

I've just spent ages reading the ADV rider threads (thanks for taking the trouble to raise it here btw!) about the whole spline thing. I haven't (yet?) had this affliction on my '04 Rockster (which now has over 22K on it - 20K in my hands since late '07). But... I have seen 1st hand the mess as my mate's '01 R's splines went at just 17K.

Also, as I'm an irrepressible idiot who's old enough to know better (but does it anyway) I indulge in antics that the doom merchants seem to suggest will guarantee (or at least very likely) my bike suffers spline failure in the not too distant future i.e. I ride the bike quite hard some of the time, and wheelie it now n then (and have done since I got it).

And... while I'm capable of taking the tranny off to check and lube the splines - I really don't want to if I can help it, and can't help feeling that (whatever the reality) - that I really shouldn't have to! (at least - nowhere near as often as it seems many do - I ain't got the time or the enthusiam to take the tranny off every year!)

So... I think I'm going to remove the starter motor and look for excessive play in the clutch/shaft like I read about - it'll either provide some peace of mind or create lots of cause for concern, but I'd rather have some idea what the score is before my European jaunts later in the year.

One big thing that did pique my interest though was the modified 'Bruno' clutch friction plate - where the mod enables the whole of the friction plate boss's splines to sit on the shaft, rather than 'overhang' as the stock one does. This looked like a logical, sensible, practical and affordable improvement (note I don't say 'cure') to the OE Clutch arrangement. If I was to remove the tranny for lubing or clutch replacment, I'd take a punt on one of these 'Bruno' items while I was at it (so I don't have to do it again for as long as possible).

Trouble is - I'm in the UK. Does anyone on here know if us Brits over this side of the pond getting rained on (esp. me cos I live in Wales) will be able to source these clutch plates? Or... could we import/buy on-line? If yes to either idea - I wonder what they cost?

Thanks for reading the waffle long enough for me to get to the point !

G.

[Dr. Strangelove]

hmmm
I wonder how much that critique carries over to the 800 series?

[sweatmark]

I wonder how much that critique carries over to the 800 series?

Let's just put it this way: Mrs. Sweatmark says that if her F800S ever stalls & dies again mid-ride on a busy mountain highway, then the bike is gone... likely sell/trade the F for 2003+ R1150R, back to his & hers: Rockster & Roadster. We will dance with the devil we know.

[Dr. Strangelove]

definitely food for thought

[rdsmith3]

It is food for thought, for sure.

I just paid $$$ to have a dealer flush my ABS brake fluid. It cost way more than it should for a routine maintenance item. I am buying new tires this year, but I hope that is it for spending money on something that is admittedly non-essential.

If I have one of these catastrophic spline or FD failures, then I would probably sell the bike for parts. I know that I also need to replace the shocks in the near future, so there is a limit to how much money I will put into this bike. With the cost of a new BMW, I don't think I can afford to buy another.

[Dr. Strangelove]

It seems many also look favorably on the V Strom as an alternative ( as well as other bikes).
I went over to the Stromtroopers.com forum and there is a current thread there: Have you owned a BMW before the V Strom, or something like that.
About half of the V Strom owners came from BMW, and many still own their BMW. Some say they never looked back, but many say the BMW is faster and many say it was a very good bike. Many say the V Stroms are more reliable, but not all.

The grass may be greener over some fences, but not every fence.

It is interesting that the take-away message from all this is that if you're going to go BMW, it is best to stay pre 2005 and just get it repaired, n'est pas?

[rdsmith3]

It is a tough decision. I have a 2002 that it probably worth less than $5K. So if I need a major repair because of spline or FD failure, plus new shocks, we're talking thousands of dollars.

Also, I'm not sure where I would get it done. I'm not sure that the nearest dealer (Bergen H-D/BMW in NJ) is competent, and I am certain they are expensive.

[grwrockster]

I've decided that if my splines do ever go, then I'd have to fix it myself (based on the big financial loss of selling it for bits rather than as a whole bike to sell/trade). The cost of parts would hurt pretty badly, but with shop labour rates on top it would be just too much.

I'm fortunate (!) in that I've removed the gearbox and clutch off one of these bikes before for a friend, so the 'fear of the unknown' factor of tackling it as a DIY job is lessened (though I've never stripped a tranny).

At the very least, I reckon I'd have very little to lose except a few hours of my life to get the Haynes Manual & the tools out, take the thing to bits and have a go! (I'm still rather hoping I've got a 'good one' though and shan't have to!).

[DMM]

The grass may be greener over some fences, but not every fence.

I was talking to a fellow who owns a Z1000. He likes the Japanese bikes, but wouldn't claim the Z is better handling or smoother or much of anything else over the BMW R. However, it does seem to be lower/easier on the scale for maintenance.

We started talking Ducatis, which he's had and liked. I suggested that a Monster or another such bike might have advantages over the R; he pointed out that they have more than their fair share of problems and drawbacks.

I had even begun considering the 800R as a possible next bike (not that I need a new one, yet); however, it's interesting the hear that even the 800s have problems.

Lastly, a mechanic I ran into (he saw my bike and walked up in a parking lot to chat) told me that even the 1600GT/L has problems. His local shop had one in as a demo and the engine seized and had a melt down before they could even demo it. They contacted BMW and were told this wasn't the first case of it happening. They (BMW) had to send a new bike, as the engine was shot. Yikes! An expensive bike with a catastrophic failure before leaving the showroom.

As you mention, the grass seems greener...