gun question

[rdsmith3]

For a number of reasons -- increasing black bear encounters, proximity to a major highway, state of the economy, etc -- I think I have finally persuaded my wife of the necessity of owning some additional protection. We have other security measures in place, but I am increasingly concerned about the factors I noted.

So, I was thinking that a 12 gauge shotgun would be the best solution. I want something that will deter a black bear or an intruder.

What do you think?

[angellr]

For a number of reasons -- increasing black bear encounters, proximity to a major highway, state of the economy, etc -- I think I have finally persuaded my wife of the necessity of owning some additional protection. We have other security measures in place, but I am increasingly concerned about the factors I noted.

So, I was thinking that a 12 gauge shotgun would be the best solution. I want something that will deter a black bear or an intruder.

What do you think?

12 gauge shotgun will only piss off the bear. The *least* effective would be a 357 magnum (as the velocity could penetrate the fur - I take one of them camping with me for that reason). The 454 Casull (my preference for bears) is a fine weapon and is carried by Alaskans who deal in areas where these guys reside. The 41 Mag is a gun I have always wanted, however, ammo is hard to find and you would have to basically reload to make it worth your while. From the Freedom Arms http://freedomarms.com/ website, here is a list of all Model 83 (field grade guns that they make) as follows:

Model 83 Field Grade Adjustable Sights
Stainless Steel, Matte Finish, and Impregnated Hardwood Grips.

MODEL 83
(Five Shot Revolvers)
Specify Barrel Length

RETAIL
904-36 .500 Wyoming Express
4¾", 6", 7½"
$1970.00

904-30 .475 Linebaugh
4¾", 6", 7½, 10"
$1970.00

904-31 454 Casull®
4¾", 6", 7½, 10"
$1970.00

904-33 .44 Remington Magnum
4¾", 6", 7½", 10"
$1870.00

904-37 .41 Remington Magnum
4¾", 6", 7½", 10"
$1870.00

904-35 .357 Magnum
4¾", 6", 7½", 9"
$1870.00

904-3470 .22 Long Rifle with Match Chambers
10"
$2137.0

Good luck.

[rdsmith3]

Thanks. Did you see the part about the wife approval factor? I'm not sure a $2,000 gun would pass that test.

[angellr]

Thanks. Did you see the part about the wife approval factor? I'm not sure a $2,000 gun would pass that test.

Thats why you can pick up a Ruger 357 magnum (I have one of these) in the $400 range. For outside critters, you need to make sure the bullet velocity can penetrate the fur. The beauty of a revolver is that you dont get chamber jams when it really counts. I also have mine loaded with snake shot every other round for those nice big rattlers.

Just wanted to provide you with the "optimal" weapon of choice for bears. $2K buys ALOT of farkles.

[rdsmith3]

Thanks. Did you see the part about the wife approval factor? I'm not sure a $2,000 gun would pass that test.

Thats why you can pick up a Ruger 357 magnum (I have one of these) in the $400 range. For outside critters, you need to make sure the bullet velocity can penetrate the fur. The beauty of a revolver is that you dont get chamber jams when it really counts. I also have mine loaded with snake shot every other round for those nice big rattlers.

Just wanted to provide you with the "optimal" weapon of choice for bears. $2K buys ALOT of farkles.

I misunderstood when you said the .357 is the *least* effective.

[angellr]

Thanks. Did you see the part about the wife approval factor? I'm not sure a $2,000 gun would pass that test.

Thats why you can pick up a Ruger 357 magnum (I have one of these) in the $400 range. For outside critters, you need to make sure the bullet velocity can penetrate the fur. The beauty of a revolver is that you dont get chamber jams when it really counts. I also have mine loaded with snake shot every other round for those nice big rattlers.

Just wanted to provide you with the "optimal" weapon of choice for bears. $2K buys ALOT of farkles.

I misunderstood when you said the .357 is the *least* effective.

My bad. .357 is the *least* effective of the rounds that work against large critters. It will work, but you just need to be able to hit a few vital areas (neck, head, upper torso, etc.). The .454 Casull was the one gun that took down all of the big game animals in a marketing deal a few years ago (my buddy was the backup shooter for this one). Great guns, but not cheap.

Net/net, go get a .357 handgun or "Henry style" rifle (Danny Glover had 2 of these in the movie Silverado) that shoots .357 magnum and call it a day.

[Jed]

Protection from humans and protection from large bears are two different things. In both cases shot placement is more important than caliber. While I don't disagree with angellr relative to terminal ballistics, a .357 can be a lot of gun to handle for a civilian to use for self defense when they are completely freaked. Are you looking to scare bears away from your house? Or are you looking to hunt bear? Your answer would indicate two different solutions. For protection from humans, shotguns and medium calibre handguns offer two different solution for the same problem.

In either case, take a gun safety course and learn about the law in your area relative to the use of lethal-force for self defense. I'm certainly not anti-gun, I own several myself but there's no such thing as one-size-fits-all answer to your question.

cheers,

[wncbmw]

Having the calmness and skill to shoot a bear with a pistol would certainly take some training. When I lived in Montana, we used to joke the best way to kill a bear with a pistol was to shove your hand down its throat and pull the trigger!

I am no bear hunter but I would think a 12 gauge with buckshot and slugs loaded alternately would do the job and would be a little easier to master. And give you a little latitude with accuracy.

Either choices should be something you can practice with.

A lever action rifle in a big ass caliber would do the trick but in an urban or suburban setting would probably not be a good idea.

They let you have handguns in NJ? Thought the politicians up there didn't trust you with them!

[rdsmith3]

Remember, these are black bears, which are not as big as brown or grizzly bears. I just want to scare them away. (As an aside, I was proud of my Boxer for going after a bear recently, at least until she had second thoughts about it. It was one of the bigger ones we've seen. My wife said she got within about 2 feet of it.) Adult males in NJ average 400 lbs but they can get over 600, according to the state.

Also, I am very much an ATGATT, belt-and-suspenders, safety-conscious person. I took the MSF class. I will definitely take a gun safety class.

I live in a suburban setting, but there are woods behind my house. Here it was in March, when we had a Spring snow

[sjbmw]

The permit will take forever.

[angellr]

The permit will take forever.

Well put, Herb.

[jas]

There is no better defense weapon, bear or otherwise, than the 12 gauge shotgun. Having grown up, played and worked in bear country, the 12 gauge is my choice. If I hike however, or plan on putting one down, a .44 is the only choice for me (a long gun is too cumbersome).

I would not count on a .357 to do the job. And as for an in house defense weapon, the .357 will take care of the intruder as well as whatever is on the other side of the wall and potentially behind that wall too if you are not shoot defence rounds. I think the Ruger GP100 is one of the best guns out there but not for this use.

Load the shotgun appropriately and you will have no issues. Alternate 00 buckshot and slugs. The 00 works the head and will help blind the animal, the slugs will drive it home. Remember, you are not out hunting bear, but rather saving your hide at the expence of yours.

Remember, if the bear is charging and you are shooting a .454 or 338, if has the eyes fixed on you and will not stop until it is dead. If it charges and you take out the eyes, your changes of removing yourself from the situation greatly increase.

A shotgun is shoulder fired and will help keep the muzzle trained on the animal in a panick situation better than a handgun. Same goes for home use.

Plus, with a shotgun, ammo is cheap. Practice all day long with 8 shot, shoot sporting clays, trap, etc.
A 3” Remington 870 can be had for $250 new + $150 or less for an 18” barrel. 3 ½” as also nice, but you have fewer rounds in the tube.

Anyway, just my .02

[rdsmith3]

Thanks for all the input.

[sjbmw]

I miss trap shooting. It got real expensive for a kid way back in the day, we had to reload ammo ourselves to cut costs.
Loved the Ithaca pump as a small game tool.
This is the Ithaca "Home defense" model.
What do you think they are advertising defending against with this one?






But, if you can hide the bill from the wife long enough, take a good look at the Browning Automatic. They are (were? been away for a while) the sweetest shotguns. (And you can go trap shooting when you are not "defending")

[rdsmith3]

That sounds nice, Herb. Fortunately, the NJ Black River wildlife management area (WMA) is near me, and they have a range that allows shot guns, so I have a "free" place to practice.

[sjbmw]

That sounds nice, Herb. Fortunately, the NJ Black River wildlife management area (WMA) is near me, and they have a range that allows shot guns, so I have a "free" place to practice.

Better get a price on a shell reloader Bob
you will "blow" through ammo faster than you think.

[rdsmith3]

I just don't need another expensive hobby at the moment. I already spend too much on motorcycle, photography, and guitar gear.

[rdsmith3]

The permit will take forever.

The way this country is going, you'll need a permit for remote controlled airplanes soon.

[Airman]

I just don't need another expensive hobby at the moment. I already spend too much on motorcycle, photography, and guitar gear.

I think Cabela's sells the Mossburg JIC, (just in case) 12 gage for around $400. It's a short pistol grip model of their 500 series 12 gage. Comes with a nice waterproof case. Slugs for bears, buckshot for intruders. I've been thinking about one for myself. I think the short 12 gage pump is the perfect house gun.
And not too expensive.

[rdsmith3]

So the recommendations so far (for shotguns) are:

-Remington 370 with 18" barrel

-Mossburg JIC

-Browning auto

Use 3" shells. Alternate 00 buckshot and slugs.