R1200 Water Cooled

[peckhammer]

Warning: This is not an R1200R topic, per se, but I have just spent the morning filming the 2013 R1200GS, which is water-cooled. All I can say is that it's really freakin' powerful. I assume this motor will make its way into the R. Does anyone know if and when?

Here's some stills I took after filming the bike: http://www.flickr.com/photos/peckhammer ... 088961188/

[peckhammer]

I managed to ride the new GS for about an hour last weekend. I keep wanting to fall in love with a GS, but everytime I ride one and then get back on my R1200R, I lose interest.

The things I like about the GS, in general, are the roominess, and seating position. The new watercooled motor definitely has more power than my air/oil motor, and I thought power delivery was excellent. Wheelies were easy; sometimes unintentional. Best new features besides the motor is the adjustable seat and windshield. Exhaust sounds very good too. You can check out all the details in the vid I worked on with AltRider: http://youtu.be/C3DRLuvxGiA

Base price is about $16K, but the local dealer will not have any until July/August. They had deposits on 13 already.

The bottom line for me is that a GS could compliment my R1200R, but it could not replace it. I am sticking with what I've got.

Peckhammer

[objectuser]

I think the going rumor is the engine will make it in the RT next year. Maybe the R will come out along side it or follow it by a year.

I like the new GS fine. It's just as ugly as my GS, but it has cruise control.

So many great bikes, not sure if I'd go directly to a new GS. I might have to explore other brands/models.

[Lost Rider]

I rode the water head GS in Death Valley on some pretty rough terrain recently, and HATED it. By marketing that bike as a Dual Sport, BMW is doing nobody any favor, and actually a dangerous disservice. That very powerful and heavy Pig is the last thing most people who will buy them should be taking off tarmac, with street tires to boot. The one I rode had 180/17 TKC80 rear and getting traction on that huge tire, even with the computers help was pathetic. They need such a big tire to deal with all the power, but big wide tires, even knobby type ones off road just suck. You can't have it all, I'm sure this will make a great comfy street bike for most folks who buy it.
Far too powerful to be useful, far to heavy to be nimble on loose terrain, suspension that bottomed out immediately when getting pushed, uncomfortable ergonomics for standing, cast wheels that did get bent with flat spots almost immediately etc, etc. I'm sure all the new fangled electronics will be popular - you don't need experience/balance/control in riding a 500 pound bike on the RTW ADVentures you'll never go on, the computer will take care of it for you!

Nice video work peckhammer, I assume you're just involved with the production and not the sales pitch.... it seems everyone who sells something related to the new GS is on the bandwagon of giving it praise for their own benefits and profits. When I hear "the incredible turn radius remains, a main part of the bikes off capabilities" I can smell the salesman BS...
Granted, a talented rider can make it look easy to ride the big GS off tarmac like in your video, but in reality very few people even know how to have proper balance when riding off tarmac and would rather buy new technology that promises better performance instead of dedicating themselves to learning the skills needed to safely ride one of those big bikes on an ADVenture...

With all that said and to get back on RR topic in the RR forum I did however feel that this motor will be a game changer for the R bike when it makes it into it. A little birdie who knows told me we'll see the BMW Bobber waterhead later this year, the waterhead RT with headlights like the GT early next year and the R following late 2014. If BMW makes the R version "sexier" they might actually be able to compete with the Red naked bikes that are far more popular in the USA, the waterhead motor having the performance to match or even beat them....
A waterhead RR that comes with Ohlins stock... yeah now that would be awesome.

[peckhammer]

Nice video work peckhammer, I assume you're just involved with the production and not the sales pitch.... it seems everyone who sells something related to the new GS is on the bandwagon of giving it praise for their own benefits and profits. When I hear "the incredible turn radius remains, a main part of the bikes off capabilities" I can smell the salesman BS...

Full disclosure: Jeremy doesn't sell bikes, he sells crash protection. And I did that video production for beers and a taco salad. Literally.

Regarding the rest of what you've said, well, I would not choose a 500 pound bike for off-road use either. I've ridden a lot of gnarly terrain here in Washington, and in California, and I am a believer in "light is right." I got to the point where the only bike a really enjoy riding off-road is a trials bike. You won't put on any major miles, but you can do and climb anything.

My personal interest in the GS would be for touring, and dirt or gravel roads. It's an SUV, IMO. I've ridden them all day and been more comfortable than I've been on the "R."

I will be interested to see how they get the new motor into the "R." Those radiators definitely use some real estate. The motor and other improvements will be welcome, though. the wet clutch and new transmission were excellent. The shifting was very un-BMW-like. I've heard that it's got Japanese roots, but that's just a rumor. throttle by wire is cool and worked great. Cruise control, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is a great feature. The one thing that I couldn't seem to find was a clock. I cycled through all the display stuff but never found it. Maybe I just need glasses.

Peckhammer

[Lost Rider]

Agreed on every point!
Your video work has really evolved and is looking very good, I hope Jeremy is a good friend because that video is worth much more than a few beers and salad, especially for commercial use if only to help sell some protection, if indirectly.

Those radiators are going to pose a real problem for those that take it off tarmac, I'm sure aftermarket folks will offer protection, adding even more weight.

Great road bike, fabulous motor really, but I can't help but think the previous GS's are more capable off tarmac somehow. Seems like BMW is merging their lines instead of making what a GS is supposed to be, at least in my eyes. A sport-touring, luxury, and off road bike just has too many compromises, but I'd imagine BMW know what sells - the fantasy of RTW luxury adventures that will never happen..... but you could on this bike! I'm sure it will make an excellent SUV type touring bike.
After riding a variety of bike last week in DV, I'm even considering selling my R and buying an Airhead GSPD, could be time to go oldschool for me... slower and low tech is the new faster, then maybe get another R when the wet head comes out... if I can afford it.


You couldn't find a clock, I couldn't even find the high beams! Lots of buttons, many not familiar of course.


They sure aren't designed for this type of riding, I can't wait for the wet RR to come out, I did love the sound of that motor all the while thinking this is going to be ridiculous in an RR.

[Woland]

For sure it'll be interesting when the wethead reaches the R, but looking at the water GS makes me want a HP2 Megamoto. Spotted one today in town and got a slight urge that I'll probably will easily resist.

Its actually a little sad, but since I got my '07 R with pinstripes I've kinda lost interest in other bikes

[Steve H.]

With all respects!
Scince 1923-to recently-what is the BMW motorcicle? Answer:boxer engine+dry clutch+transmission+drive shaft(on right hand side)+differential(final drive).That is BMW.Flavor,smell,taste ofBMW.6 years older than Harley.Do you really need more than110HP and bunch of a tork??More of that? Why?Where?When?BMW's boxers lost the real meaning of boxers with multiple plate vet clutch,integrated with engine and transmission.That is not animore the real and thru BMW motorcycle.Japanies influence?Might be.Going for more modern?OK! I am going to stay with my 2012 R1200R "Classic"BMW motorcycle.Oh,chiper production???Probably yes.Easier for maintenance?I am not shure.Pumping up heads of new potential costumers?Yes.Basically,air cooled boxers where the real BMWs scynce the begining.BMW should leave one part of his history just like that.It is functioning vell.Isn't it?

Best regards for all of you

Steve H.

[xprof]

Hey, where do I rest my legs when they put the carbs on top of the heads? Mebbe I'll just stick with my 2009. I'm an old guy, and this bike might just outlast me...

[Karamazov]

Great road bike, fabulous motor really, but I can't help but think the previous GS's are more capable off tarmac somehow. Seems like BMW is merging their lines instead of making what a GS is supposed to be, at least in my eyes. A sport-touring, luxury, and off road bike just has too many compromises, but I'd imagine BMW know what sells - the fantasy of RTW luxury adventures that will never happen..... but you could on this bike! I'm sure it will make an excellent SUV type touring bike.

I think the 1200GS has evolved past the point of being a legitimate ADVenture tourer. I maintain that there isn't anything a GS can do that I wouldn't do on my R1200R - now with spoked wheels, maybe more The GS really has become the H2 of the motorbike world. Honestly, for long distance touring - especially in foreign/remote places - I'd be extremely concerned about all that tech. I've toured a lot on a G650X, a single cylinder F650GS, and an F800GS, and found all three exponentially more compenetent as all-round bikes. I guess one could make the arguement about the big GS being more comfortable and highway capable, but "comfort" to me is all relative. I put 20k miles on my little G650 and never once thought I need a bigger, more powerful bike. It cruised along at 85mph just fine, and if I saw a gnarly road to explore, I took it.

As for the wethead R, I guess I'd have to see it to make a call. It's hard to believe that anything could be prettier than the current R, and the comfort of knowing my engine is the culmination of 100 years of refinement is certainly a plus.

[cestes]

[As for the wethead R, I guess I'd have to see it to make a call. It's hard to believe that anything could be prettier than the current R, and the comfort of knowing my engine is the culmination of 100 years of refinement is certainly a plus.]

I really like the ,"Knowing my engine is the culmination of 100 years of refinement is certainly a plus."

[Steve H.]

I am definitly sticking with my 2012 r12r.I am not a raicing guy,and the power plant on my "red Rudy" is way more than sufficient.Over 55 years of young age I don't think you really need more than 110 HP.If you do need more power,go for it. Good luck!!

[Steve H.]

Apsolutelly agree with Lost Rider,Woland, xprof,karamazov,cestes!!

[David R]

In another thread some where I was reading about tubed tires.
No thank you.
Dual compound radials are awesome. I make too many temporary repairs (plug) on the road to mess with tubes.

I am for the electronics. We have to deal with the learning curve.

In the end, I would not now buy a bike with out ABS or EFI.

Say what you want, ABS saved my azz twice.

Water cooled seems to be part of moving forward for BMW.
No more smelling the clutch if you abuse it.
My RT ran pretty hot in the city.
This camhead R does not have that problem.

15 more HP, ONE spark Plug per side, higher compression ratio. Bigger FD.
I'll want one when it comes out. Maybe after a year or two of production.

I think I could have bought a 190 hp S1000RR for less money than My boxer. I like the power of a twin. I have enough HP to get me in trouble.

David

[Karamazov]

In another thread some where I was reading about tubed tires.
No thank you.
Dual compound radials are awesome. I make too many temporary repairs (plug) on the road to mess with tubes.

I am for the electronics. We have to deal with the learning curve.

In the end, I would not now buy a bike with out ABS or EFI.

Say what you want, ABS saved my azz twice.

Water cooled seems to be part of moving forward for BMW.
No more smelling the clutch if you abuse it.
My RT ran pretty hot in the city.
This camhead R does not have that problem.

15 more HP, ONE spark Plug per side, higher compression ratio. Bigger FD.
I'll want one when it comes out. Maybe after a year or two of production.

ABS and EFI weren't exactly the "tech" I was talking about (do they still make bikes with carburetors?) Either way, all of your comments suggest you'd want the R1200GS for a road bike. If I didn't care about looks, I would definitely consider the R1200GS as my only bike, and in that regard the R12R is the only bike for me. My issue with the big GS is that it isn't designed as a GS anymore. It's designed to compete with other big, high HP "Adventure Bikes" like the Multistrada. These bikes have nothing to do with the intent of the original GS. The F800GS does, however.

As for tubed tires, I really don't care. If I had the choice when I purchased the bike, I'd have taken the mags, but I haven't really thought about it since. Most of the bikes I've ridden had tubes, the one that didn't (my first R12R) was the last puncture I had - knock on wood - and it was in the sidewall and not plugable anyway. Any way you slice it, a puncture is gonna put a damper on your day. I don't really mind having to take a tire off once in a blue moon to patch a tube.

I'll want one when it comes out. Maybe after a year or two of production.

Couldn't agree more. They've got a few years of bugs to work out. I'm not in any hurry to ditch my R12R, but like I said, we'll see how the new one looks. Sometimes you just gotta have it. I'm sure plenty of 1150 guys swore off the 1200 when it premiered

[badbs101]

Nothing to fear...looks like a great bike and an even better motor. I like my 2012 1200 R but the new wet head motor is intriguing. I always like more power and a wet clutch sounds good to me. If I didn't have a newer 1200R, a 1200GS with the new motor would be very high on my list of bikes to check out. The extra suspension travel is comfy on long days.

[SteelD]

After having ridden a water-cooled GS and noticed that the engine is a lot more willing and the mirrors don't vibrate at speed, I think I want that motor in a R chassis. I was sceptical of the engine at first which is why I bought a new R in 2012 but if a water-cooled R comes out in 2015, I might be first in the queue.

[jkhomes]

The GS is an awesome bike and still tears up everything else for serious ADV.

I am guessing we never see the wethead on our R1200R with the telelever. The new concept bike may replace the R1200R

[scooterme]

I'm not sure if this is the real 2015 R1200R Water Boxer or just another artists impression...

[Catchina]

I translated that page but can't tell if that is just an artist impression. We should know soon about 2015 models from official BMW sources.

That picture does look good, if the new R looks anything like that I like it.

The translation also talks about a smaller 900cc RnineT