R1200R, Slow Seep, U-Turns, Clutch and Clunk

[arp]

I'm practicing my slow speed U-Turn technique. The MSF training seems to be centered around wet clutches and the friction zone. What is best for the dry clutches in the R1200R? Videos of R1200RT police bikes are inspiring, but they don't need to worry so much about clutch replacement $$$. I'd like to know the technique though!

I came across this thread on advrider from which I understood the technique of letting the engine lug at idle and using the clutch in a gentle on/off manner is best. I tried this and will explore it further, but wonder about the repeated clunking from the clutch/transmission. What causes that and is it bad?

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=639279

Alex

[rad]

I teach MSF, ride a R1200R now, and do the U-turns on my R with no problem. There are different ways to do it.

What works for me is:
Get the speed up, counter weight, pull in the clutch, monster head turn, initiate turn as you pull in the clutch, carry speed through the turn. If more speed is needed in the turn don't slip the clutch, jab it into the friction zone then pull it in again.

Most people that struggle do so because they ride too slow and fight the lean. Keep the speed up, let the bike lean. If the bike starts to fall to the inside, pick up speed with a quick jab of the clutch.

I also practice making continuous tight circles in the box and just keep turning. Keeping the speed up is important.

One last point that is key to success for me is the initial turn in must be sharp and not timid. It starts with a firm/pronounced counter steer then the wheel come back into the turn.

Relax, sometimes think less and just ride, you will get it.

[objectuser]

Thanks for posting the advice. I'm not too bad at this, I can always do it in a street and usually within a lane, but I'm not great within a parking space width like in the MSF course. I'm going to try your advice.

[jkhomes]

I went to the MSF grounds last week to practice slow speed turns and stopping. One school I went to had us drag the rear break and stay a little on the throttle through the turn. That technique works well for me. I doubt if you will burn out your clutch using it for slow speed drills.

[PaulLP]

I chalked the DMV test out last weekend at a small bank parking lot and I have to say that it is really not easy to do that circle on the R1200R without putting your foot down, and staying within the lines... the cones are no problem, neither is the straight line ride (this is California's DMV skills test for M1 license)
I am new to the BMW, having used to riding a Norton 750 cafe racer (40+ years ago) so I'll be patient and in no hurry to do the test. And there is always the service that'll bring a small bike perfectly setup for the test for $50.
Might be cheating a little, but I feel that doing that tight a circle proves nothing really in regards to real life driving, especially on a bigger bike like the BMW.

[David R]

I see no reason your bike will not complete the test.

Feet on the pegs, ride the rear brake for control, Clutch almost slipping. Feather the clutch if you have to, It won't hurt it. Taking off up a hill with passenger and full load is another story.

David.

[PaulLP]

I see no reason your bike will not complete the test.

Feet on the pegs, ride the rear brake for control, Clutch almost slipping. Feather the clutch if you have to, It won't hurt it. Taking off up a hill with passenger and full load is another story.

David.

David, it is a 19.5 foot inner circle and a 22 foot outer circle, your front wheel can't leave the circle, and you can't put your foot down, either one you instantly fail.
Didn't sound so bad so that's why I went up to the parking area and chalked it out. Could get around once maybe, constantly failed on second attempt, and you have to make 2 revolutions in both directions.
Have you done this? If not and are particularly interested i suggest you give it a go, and report back here. Also, I assume you have an R1200R or similar.
Good luck, and in the meantime I'll keep giving it a shot to see if can relax and just do it!

[arp]

I teach MSF, ride a R1200R now, and do the U-turns on my R with no problem. There are different ways to do it.

What works for me is:
Get the speed up, counter weight, pull in the clutch, monster head turn, initiate turn as you pull in the clutch, carry speed through the turn. If more speed is needed in the turn don't slip the clutch, jab it into the friction zone then pull it in again.

Most people that struggle do so because they ride too slow and fight the lean. Keep the speed up, let the bike lean. If the bike starts to fall to the inside, pick up speed with a quick jab of the clutch.

I also practice making continuous tight circles in the box and just keep turning. Keeping the speed up is important.

One last point that is key to success for me is the initial turn in must be sharp and not timid. It starts with a firm/pronounced counter steer then the wheel come back into the turn.

Relax, sometimes think less and just ride, you will get it.

Thanks for that description rad. I gave it a try and think I'll practice it dsome more. I like that it removes one variable (the rear brake) from the equation.

The California DMV circle of doom test seems to focus your attention down rather than up, but I'm sure it takes skill to do it.

[David R]

Yes, I ride a 2012 R. I will try it.

I found when I took my road test in 1976 the right circles were harder than the left.

To this day my tires wear more on the left than the right.

David

[rad]

Yes, I ride a 2012 R. I will try it.

I found when I took my road test in 1976 the right circles were harder than the left.

To this day my tires wear more on the left than the right.

David

A couple comments;

Most riders find turning sharp to the right harder. This could well be because the throttle is on the right and controling it and pressing complicates the right turn.

Second, if you live in a country that drives on the right, all tires will wear more on the left. Every road is crowned, sloping to the right to shed water.

[ka5ysy]

I teach MSF, ride a R1200R now, and do the U-turns on my R with no problem. There are different ways to do it.

What works for me is:
Get the speed up, counter weight, pull in the clutch, monster head turn, initiate turn as you pull in the clutch, carry speed through the turn. If more speed is needed in the turn don't slip the clutch, jab it into the friction zone then pull it in again.

Most people that struggle do so because they ride too slow and fight the lean. Keep the speed up, let the bike lean. If the bike starts to fall to the inside, pick up speed with a quick jab of the clutch.

I also practice making continuous tight circles in the box and just keep turning. Keeping the speed up is important.

One last point that is key to success for me is the initial turn in must be sharp and not timid. It starts with a firm/pronounced counter steer then the wheel come back into the turn.

Relax, sometimes think less and just ride, you will get it.

Thanks for that description rad. I gave it a try and think I'll practice it dsome more. I like that it removes one variable (the rear brake) from the equation.

The California DMV circle of doom test seems to focus your attention down rather than up, but I'm sure it takes skill to do it.

Rad's advice is right on target. The big trick to doing tight turns is to get the bike up above walking speed so it will hold itself up, and stay in the friction zone. We can instantly tell when the clutch is pulled in because the bike falls into the turn and a foot goes down.

The trick to the DMV Circle is to NOT look down at the lines. This is simply a peripheral vision exercise. Look around the turn and your peripheral vision lets you see the lane position without actually looking at it. Practice a bit and it is very easy. FWIW, that is how, when we ride the stop exercises, instructors can place their left foot adjacent to the stop cone while looking straight ahead.

I ride the exercise 10 demo (the "box") and then show what the the counterweight technique is actually doing by riding in the box in a circle at full lock , weighting the outside peg and lifting my inside foot off the peg. All it takes is practice.

One thing to remember about the driveline on the RR is that there is a little bit of play when you are fooling with the throttle to control things, and will result in some clunking. One of the other tricks on these bikes is the keep the drive line in tension with a little bit of rear brake. Try keeping the RPM up a bit, staying in the friction zone and control speed with the rear brake. Avoid doing much with the throttle and you will be much smoother.