R1150R v new R1200R LC

[gregor]

I'm an R1150R owner. Not been keen on the hex head R1200R because of the ugly low mounted radiator. At first glance I like the looks of the new R1200R LC . My local dealer has just sent me some pictures unfortunately the text is garbled and the capacity is 999cc and it seems to have four cylinders.
The new R1200R LC has a much more pleasing (to me ) high mounted radiator. I like the looks of the vertical intakes but and not sure about the exhaust pipes going straight down. I do wonder about heat going back up into the motor when stationary rather than convecting away as with horizontal exhausts. I guess the water cooling copes with that.
What is the net result for maximum angle of lean and centre of gravity I wonder? A whole new bike, just retaining the boxer layout, rather than another step in the evolution. Must be a rational packaging reason to move the final drive to the other side. I think we can guess the reason for the different transmission with the wet clutch.
But will I sell my R1150R for an R1200 LC? Hmmm.

[P_Jensen]

4 cylinders and 999cc would have to be a S1000R (S series roadster) or prehaps was sending you info on the upcomming S1000XR (has a intergated fairing). R series models are 2 cylinder boxer engine.

[gregor]

I eventually realised that the text did not completely match the pictures. Doug has posted the correct spec. on this site. But am still interested in your responses to the new boxer design.

[Doug]

I eventually realised that the text did not completely match the pictures. Doug has posted the correct spec. on this site. But am still interested in your responses to the new boxer design.

I replied to your other post, but w.r.t. design, I think it's sexy! I really dig the white.

[Bill Stevenson]

Gregor,

You really need to ride one to know what they are like. For me the new wasserboxer is a nicer bike to ride than my 2008 R1200R, which was a nicer bike to ride than my 2002 R1150R. All nice bikes of course. Everyone has their own reasons for liking certain bikes better than others. Since I don't have to look at the radiator while riding, that factor does not weigh heavily for me. But how the bike feels, handles, goes, stops, the ergonomics, those are the reasons why I like all of these bikes. And the new one is just a delightful bike to ride. It is easier to ride than any other in my experience. Try it, you'll like it.

Doug, if you get a white one, be warned that it will not be as fast as my black one.

[peels]

Vs. my 1150, I think its a fantastic motorcycle. better in every way, except price.

its not worth the sticker(to me), unless you are to be burning a lot more pavement than I.

But...with the blue with that gold suspension...oh man. its close

[Chuxter]

As an OLD DOG, 65+ and 50 yrs in a saddle, if I wanted a Jap bike I'd buy one. Guess the Classic is coming out? Totally agree price is out? Guess Im good for 1 more...maybe a belt 800? Just cant lean forward anymore without the shoulders screaming NO MAS? To each his own!

[RedRyder]

The new 1200 is a natural progression of style and technology that I embrace. I could be considered an "old dog" (63) but I refuse to sit in the past. I view the world as it changes as a sense of wonder and pride in how humans continually create. We've come a long way since kick starters, crappy drum brakes, spindly forks and 18" tires that make better tire swings than they ever provided traction. I bought the Metallic Gray LC recently and have 2000 miles on it. I have owned both the '02 and '05 R's. I bought the '02 Yellow Jacket brand new and if my old mind remembers it was a shade over $10,000. 13 years later the coolest, fastest and most comfortable R of all time is $17,000. Now that is a 5% increase per year, but in terms of time and what the new R does, it seems reasonable to me. Others may disagree on that point.

What I can tell you is when you exit out of a corner and are able to pin the throttle in the 5000-6000 rpm range and use the pro shift mode (without clutch) it creates an adrenaline rush that can't be matched, and it also is a comfortable touring machine with bags! amazing

[CycleRob]

The motorcycle magazines (MotorCyclist, Cycle World) were blown away by the all around superiority of the new waterhead GS model and admitted it may be THE best motorcycle EVER. The engine also got high praise. Since the S1000RR, BMW's first year winning effort, BMW has shown they can out do the Japanese factories for high performance top honors . . . . and do it in THE FIRST MODEL YEAR!

I think the WaterHead is the engine they should have made when the OilHead came out and said so on this board back then too. Water cooling and DOHC to be specific. BMW's shim adjustment system on their DOHC system is not only a brilliant design, but it is easy for the owner/rider to perform, in that the camshafts do NOT have to be removed. The only drawback is you may need a car (or other bike) to go to the BMW dealer for shims while it is apart. About their new WaterHead bikes, the big disappointment for me is the death of 2 of the Boxer bike's best attributes . . . the TeleLever front suspension and the excited field high output car type alternator. Worse yet, they replaced the TeleLever with an UpSideDown (USD) front fork. USD forks have a short service life for those that do not religiously clean the entire seal swept area. Unlike the TeleLever, where the fork seal travel area is way-up-high under the top tree, USD forks have that vulnerable working surface between the axle and brake rotor, where grit, silty road spray and puddles can bathe it as small bumps pump the forks in-n-out. When that leaky oil seal needs replacement the owner is stunned to learn he also needs to replace a scratched, VERY expensive fork tube. I'm sure the BMW factory's deciding factors were cost, space limitations, excess weight and the temptation of capturing a substantially large new group of non-BMW owners like the ones that scooped up the amazing quantum leap of technology oozing throughout the very non-BMW S1000RR. So . . . if you decide that a new WaterHead DOHC Boxer is a must have, remember what I told you about religiously cleaning those shiny fork tubes.

It's not just me. Multi bike BMW fanatics, be they current or consecutive owners for decades, also sneer at those USD forks replacing the TeleLever. No longer can you add-on a superior Ohlins front suspension (the shock) for around $1,300. Gone will be the amazing bumpy corner stability and lack of braking dive of the TeleLever. No longer will you have a high output, tightly regulated, very efficient, extremely durable, car type alternator. Then there's the new sticker shock price. With the 70 MPH speed limit signs the highest in most of the USA, the fuel efficient, lightweight F800GT looks better-n-better.

[RedRyder]

I think it is time to move on from the new vs. old discussions, particularly USD vs. telelever. No one is going to prove anything by these pointless disputes.

The new R is neither the first nor the only current BMW without telelever. USD forks have been around for years and are pretty standard on adventure, touring and motocross bikes. The biggest advatage to inverted forks is that they are much stiffer (latterly, not compression extension) than conventional forks, i.e. the forks have more resistance to bending relative to the bikes frame. This results in a more composed (constant) suspension and better feadback of what is happening at the road tire interface. Yeah, they cost a little more to fix and you need to watch them a little more closely than old style stanchions for leakage because they are close to the brakes and tires, but if your not cleaning 'em and checking them periodically you probably don't check other components on your bike either. Let's not beat around the bush, they look trick and if that is not a good reason to have them, then I can not come up with one. I am not attempting to convince you that USD forks are better than telelever. I don't care if anyone sneers. They work great and add in the ESA and you've got a pretty impressive suspension system. Take one for a test ride even if you don't ever intend to buy one.

By the way, the F800GT has telescopic forks, no telelever. It also has a 400w alt, the old R's have 700w and the new R has 500w. all of them capable of running a number of heated articles, lights, etc.

[sweatmark]

Rob, as always I appreciate your words of wisdom and voice of experience. Our F800 is a keeper because of your endorsement.

A few days on a loaner LC GS last year was all the convincing needed: I would gladly trade Rockster for the LC R or RS or GS, if I could afford the new bike. Great motor!

[Lost Rider]

Once again CycleRob bestowing us with his infinite wisdom on everything BMW, an opinion about a bike he doesn't own and hasn't even ridden.
Nice trolling.
I heard the same speech and story about the F800R forks back in 2012 from him, turns out there's not been any reports of major issues or the world ending as Rob thinks. I have well over 130,000 actual miles on BMW bikes with USD forks - F800GS, F800R, NineT and now the R1200R.
Besides replacing forks seals once on the GS after about 60,000 miles, which I easily did myself as part of preventive maintenance, it's not been any issue, certainly not as Rob would have you believe. I never bothered specifically cleaning the outer seals or fork tubes either and have ridden many miles off road in far more demanding conditions than most.
Scratched fork tubes? Didn't happen.

People who actually take the time to have an informed opinion about how the new R1200R with D-ESA feels while riding certainly aren't sneering at anything, quite the contrary. Plus decades long stubborn BMW owners are not the target market for this bike, this bike was made for riders such as myself who embrace and appreciate advances in technologies instead of whining about them on forums.



My NineT with same forks (minus D-ESA) as the R1200R, not concerned about durability.

[RedRyder]

My sentiments exactly sir. Thank you for your well thought out comments. I still hope that this LC section of the message board will become a place for ideas, tips and reviews for all things R1200 LC and not be a place for ignorant comments about how the 1150 and 1200R's are better based on bogus judgements.

"Ignorance is always afraid of change."

[Bill Stevenson]

It's not just me. Multi bike BMW fanatics, be they current or consecutive owners for decades, also sneer at those USD forks replacing the TeleLever. No longer can you add-on a superior Ohlins front suspension (the shock) for around $1,300. Gone will be the amazing bumpy corner stability and lack of braking dive of the TeleLever. No longer will you have a high output, tightly regulated, very efficient, extremely durable, car type alternator. Then there's the new sticker shock price. With the 70 MPH speed limit signs the highest in most of the USA, the fuel efficient, lightweight F800GT looks better-n-better.

I am 67 years old and have been riding Beemers off and on since 1972. Have well over 300,000 miles on them and counting. So I hope to be considered among the faithful. In a separate post, I commented on the loss of Telelever. My 2008 R1200R was equipped with Yacugar shocks front and rear (and my 2002 R1150R had Ohlins). The loss of Telelever on the new bikes is a non-issue. If anything the new USD fork is superior, faster turn in, just as stable, little or no difference in fork dive, braking performance even on rough surfaces is about the same. So please don't attribute things to riders like me with lots of BMW experience who happen to like the new LC better. As far as the alternator is concerned, the only Beemer I ever had electrical problems with was my 2008 RR. It had multiple battery failures.

Bill

[Doug]

Doug, if you get a white one, be warned that it will not be as fast as my black one.

Black is definitely the fastest color.. that is, unless I get a white one, then that will be fastest.

[cgguy09]

Doug, if you get a white one, be warned that it will not be as fast as my black one.

Black is definitely the fastest color.. that is, unless I get a white one, then that will be fastest.

[peels]

I'm curious, Since its been out awhile, has there been any negative reports on the new motor yet?

breakdowns, design flaws? heres a lisst of the GS problems, some engine issues....

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1004037

I'm pretty much sold on a blue one at some point. Its grown on me(in all but price) to the point of obsession now. (also assuming blue to be fastest?)

[RedRyder]

peels, i can only report on my experience with the bike and after taking possession in March, I have accumulated 2,800 miles. Now that summer is upon us I can get more trips in. There have been zero problems. The design flaws for me do not center on the engine, but the placement of the accessory plug. What the heck is it doing on the right side tucked up by the driver seat? It is a pain to plug in a heated vest. As you know, the cord exits from the left of the vest. I have lot's of miles left in my old vest to purchase a battery operated one. Maybe there is a reason it was placed on the right side of the bike. The other design flaw is that it difficult to remove the smile from my face whenever I ride my R LC. Maybe someone has a fix for this.

That list from ADVrider appears to have a multitude of "rare or single occurrences" of flaws or issues with the engine/bike. The only one that I might accept is the rear brake pads not lasting as long as the older models. That's because the ABS system is linked and puts more wear on the back brake than we are used to. Most of that list is pretty minor and fixed by warranty. Not saying they didn't happen or it wasn't important to the owner, but compiling a list of "issues" from forum posts doesn't have credence with me. One of the complaints was a "loose windshield adjusting wheel", while another was a "roundel fell off". Are those design flaws?

Hope you get a chance to act on your obsession for the blue machine.

[peels]

peels, i can only report on my experience with the bike and after taking possession in March, I have accumulated 2,800 miles. Now that summer is upon us I can get more trips in. There have been zero problems. The design flaws for me do not center on the engine, but the placement of the accessory plug. What the heck is it doing on the right side tucked up by the driver seat? It is a pain to plug in a heated vest. As you know, the cord exits from the left of the vest. I have lot's of miles left in my old vest to purchase a battery operated one. Maybe there is a reason it was placed on the right side of the bike. The other design flaw is that it difficult to remove the smile from my face whenever I ride my R LC. Maybe someone has a fix for this.

That list from ADVrider appears to have a multitude of "rare or single occurrences" of flaws or issues with the engine/bike. The only one that I might accept is the rear brake pads not lasting as long as the older models. That's because the ABS system is linked and puts more wear on the back brake than we are used to. Most of that list is pretty minor and fixed by warranty. Not saying they didn't happen or it wasn't important to the owner, but compiling a list of "issues" from forum posts doesn't have credence with me. One of the complaints was a "loose windshield adjusting wheel", while another was a "roundel fell off". Are those design flaws?

Hope you get a chance to act on your obsession for the blue machine.

I didn't see anything repetitive in there that would scream "design flaw" either. You know, like servo brakes, bad spline alignment...that sorta thing LOL


The other design flaw is that it difficult to remove the smile from my face whenever I ride my R LC.

noted. hope thats covered under warranty.

[gregor]

Saw a R1200R LC in black at the local dealer when mine was being fettled. Oooh it looked fantastic. I can see the pounds may be counted next year after our big holiday down under.