hot engine clutch noise

[DAM650]

Hello,

Only a few days of ownership (since last friday), yesterday I pulled in for fuel after cruising highway for about 20 mins at 75-80 in sixth gear, pulling in the clutch lever initiated a loud tapping that could be felt through the footpegs. Engage neutral and release the lever, no noise. After the bike cooled down at home later, no noise.

Not knowing the bikes in general I find the shifting timing for smoothness very difficult, and if you drop the clutch it really clangs against the flywheel. This is likely my lack of experience (as I have read others having the same issues) however I am pretty certain that loud tapping should not be happening when pulling in the clutch lever after the motor is at running temps.

I have searched exhaustively and found one issue that possibly matches what mine does here http://www.r1150r.net/forums/ ... 50R-clutch

Also I have looked for a clutch adjustment procedure, and have found out how to, on the units who have adjustment wheels at the lever, and then go to the slave and loosen to reset the up front play. But how on the 2002 r1150r with no wheel at the clutch lever?

I understand how annoying it can be for new guys to come onto forum and ask questions without looking first, but really i have checked here and other places, read through the pdf service IBMWR and Oilhead Riders provide, and tons of youtube videos, but nothing is clear on how to adjust the clutch on a 2002 r1150r.

Love to fix everything myself, have owned my f650 for 12 years and not once taken to be fixed in any shop, esp. BMW dealer.

I appreciate your insights and answers. Flame ON!

[scottdc_pdx]

I'm still new to the R1150R myself and the forum but in my experience with hydraulic clutch bikes in general is they don't have any clutch adjustment. Generally if it feels out of whack it needs to be bled.

[peels]

no that's a sign something is going on.

slave bearing shot.... if that bearing is truly gone, the clutch slave shaft will have nothing to hold it in place at the end, and it will wobble. mine made more of a "grindy-ticky" noise. But I rode it that way, assuming it was normal. Then changed when I had no clutch. And its quiet now.

its not too difficult a job, I actually managed it without removing anything. THough later, pulling it again to split the trans, I found it WAY easier to get into place.



after that, clutch itself, but never heard of that causing a noise.



tips for shifting:

1. neutral to first. after pulling clutch wait a second or two before dropping into gear. gears still spinning, but wheel is not, so when you hit the shifter it clunks.
2: downshifting, match rpm, blipping throttle slightly.
3. upshift, do not overthink. pressure on shifter, simultaneous clutch and throttle release. (TINY bit of both) and the gear will swap like butter.

[peels]

pic of mine against the new one.

[CycleRob]

DAM650,

Stop running the engine! Visible parts damage has already occurred, but running it more will really destroy them.

Member peels is right on . . . your slave piston's bearing is shot! The clutch pushrod is supposed to spin exactly with the engine while the other end at the slave piston would spin nearly friction free in that tiny little bearing. That undersized BMW bearing in reality has a very short service life, even when compared to cheaper Japanese bikes that, with my 50+ years experience, never have this type of expensive failure. Why? Because of the fact there is NEVER any freeplay between the unusually heavy spring return pressure always applied to the slave piston bearing, anytime the engine is running. When you pull in the clutch, that applied force goes even higher. When I had mine apart I considered cutting that spring shorter, plus heating/bending/grinding the new end to mimic the original, to reduce that ridiculously heavy spring load. I declined, deferring to the group of BMW engineers that surely have tested and approved the final choice. Fortunately for me, the F800 engine series has a cable operated wet clutch, a 2x larger throwout bearing bathed in engine oil, with enough freeplay to have zero contact with the stationary release lever arm. Except for maybe a new clutch cable after 100K miles, a forever system.

So . . . that noise you hear is a combination of the clutch pushrod having a fight at both ends with the high friction of a damaged slave bearing causing the slave piston to spin in it's bore and because of that the clutch end of the pushrod may NOT be rotating in unison with the engine and burning away the ball socket and last inch (25mm) of the pushrod's non lubricated OD surface. High heat makes the tiny clearances smaller while the DOT4 fluid gets as thin as gasoline.

Remove the slave ASAP and at the very least replace it !

[DAM650]

DAM650,

Stop running the engine! Visible parts damage has already occurred, but running it more will really destroy them.

Member peels is right on . . . your slave piston's bearing is shot! The clutch pushrod is supposed to spin exactly with the engine while the other end at the slave piston would spin nearly friction free in that tiny little bearing. That undersized BMW bearing in reality has a very short service life, even when compared to cheaper Japanese bikes that, with my 50+ years experience, never have this type of expensive failure. Why? Because of the fact there is NEVER any freeplay between the unusually heavy spring return pressure always applied to the slave piston bearing, anytime the engine is running. When you pull in the clutch, that applied force goes even higher. When I had mine apart I considered cutting that spring shorter, plus heating/bending/grinding the new end to mimic the original, to reduce that ridiculously heavy spring load. I declined, deferring to the group of BMW engineers that surely have tested and approved the final choice. Fortunately for me, the F800 engine series has a cable operated wet clutch, a 2x larger throwout bearing bathed in engine oil, with enough freeplay to have zero contact with the stationary release lever arm. Except for maybe a new clutch cable after 100K miles, a forever system.

So . . . that noise you hear is a combination of the clutch pushrod having a fight at both ends with the high friction of a damaged slave bearing causing the slave piston to spin in it's bore and because of that the clutch end of the pushrod may NOT be rotating in unison with the engine and burning away the ball socket and last inch (25mm) of the pushrod's non lubricated OD surface. High heat makes the tiny clearances smaller while the DOT4 fluid gets as thin as gasoline.

Remove the slave ASAP and at the very least replace it !

dayum! is there any info on how to do the slave without taking the whole assend off? youtube? pix? someone look over my shoulder?

[peels]

not really. there IS a vid by chris harris doing it on a r1200C model. but its a different beast, slightly.

to do it without pulling the trans is a contortionist job. difficult, to be honest. BUT, doable with patience.

quick notes:

remove:

wheel
rear shock.
shock adjuster.
footpeg brackets, and the crossmember between them. (r1200c does not have this)

that will give you decent(but not great) room. if you have a set of hexhead sockets that swivel a bit, that would be swell. I didnt. ANother difficult bit was having to tighten banjo bolts on top of slave, you kind of have to do that before. took me an evening to remove, and another evening to install. I added extra grease to the bearing.

I also removed it again to check the oil seal inside. this time with the whole paralever off. way more work but MUCH easier to fit.

here is a Chris Harris Vid that helped me. You should subscribe to his channel watch some. much to learn. remember, RT,GS models are pretty much same bikes with cosmetic differences.

oh... when he describes the orientation of the hoses, he either misspeaks, OR the C model is configured slightly different. one hose is input the other is the bypass and bleed hose. i put mine on wrong initially.

enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLqsry3QPDw

[DAM650]

not really. there IS a vid by chris harris doing it on a r1200C model. but its a different beast, slightly.

to do it without pulling the trans is a contortionist job. difficult, to be honest. BUT, doable with patience.

quick notes:

remove:

wheel
rear shock.
shock adjuster.
footpeg brackets, and the crossmember between them. (r1200c does not have this)

that will give you decent(but not great) room. if you have a set of hexhead sockets that swivel a bit, that would be swell. I didnt. ANother difficult bit was having to tighten banjo bolts on top of slave, you kind of have to do that before. took me an evening to remove, and another evening to install. I added extra grease to the bearing.

I also removed it again to check the oil seal inside. this time with the whole paralever off. way more work but MUCH easier to fit.

here is a Chris Harris Vid that helped me. You should subscribe to his channel watch some. much to learn. remember, RT,GS models are pretty much same bikes with cosmetic differences.

oh... when he describes the orientation of the hoses, he either misspeaks, OR the C model is configured slightly different. one hose is input the other is the bypass and bleed hose. i put mine on wrong initially.

enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLqsry3QPDw

i love that salty dog Harris. have watched and watching over all those oilhead videos

thank you very much for the tips

[DAM650]

anyone ever use the rebuild kit from beemerboneyard?

[trickytree]

Removed and replaced my slave, wheel and rear shock will have to come out. It's a real test or patience but can be done.

[DAM650]

now that beemerboneyard has no more magura units, it seems there are no alternatives to BringMoreWallet?

somebody prove me wrong

[peels]

no more slave units? that sucks.

crap.

[DAM650]

no more slave units? that sucks.

crap.

F$ck BMW, there has to be an alternative unit

[Sunbeemer]

Only a few days of ownership (since last friday), yesterday I pulled in for fuel after cruising highway for about 20 mins at 75-80 in sixth gear, pulling in the clutch lever initiated a loud tapping that could be felt through the footpegs. Engage neutral and release the lever, no noise. After the bike cooled down at home later, no noise.

Mine does that, and has done it forever. I think it's caused by a little slop in rear main motor bearing that allows the crankshaft and flywheel to squirm when the clutch is disengaged after the oil has warmed up and thinned out...doesn't do it with cold, thick oil. In mine the sound changes from a soft puffing to noticeable knocking when I pull in the clutch on a warmed engine. Hope that's all it is!

[DAM650]

Only a few days of ownership (since last friday), yesterday I pulled in for fuel after cruising highway for about 20 mins at 75-80 in sixth gear, pulling in the clutch lever initiated a loud tapping that could be felt through the footpegs. Engage neutral and release the lever, no noise. After the bike cooled down at home later, no noise.

Mine does that, and has done it forever. I think it's caused by a little slop in rear main motor bearing that allows the crankshaft and flywheel to squirm when the clutch is disengaged after the oil has warmed up and thinned out...doesn't do it with cold, thick oil. In mine the sound changes from a soft puffing to noticeable knocking when I pull in the clutch on a warmed engine. Hope that's all it is!

hey thanks for that bit of info. i find that mine clunks pretty hard if i engage the clutch quickly, does that sound like a "normal" noise to you?

[peels]

Only a few days of ownership (since last friday), yesterday I pulled in for fuel after cruising highway for about 20 mins at 75-80 in sixth gear, pulling in the clutch lever initiated a loud tapping that could be felt through the footpegs. Engage neutral and release the lever, no noise. After the bike cooled down at home later, no noise.

Mine does that, and has done it forever. I think it's caused by a little slop in rear main motor bearing that allows the crankshaft and flywheel to squirm when the clutch is disengaged after the oil has warmed up and thinned out...doesn't do it with cold, thick oil. In mine the sound changes from a soft puffing to noticeable knocking when I pull in the clutch on a warmed engine. Hope that's all it is!

hey thanks for that bit of info. i find that mine clunks pretty hard if i engage the clutch quickly, does that sound like a "normal" noise to you?

the clunk when you release the clutch I HOPE is normal. Mine has done that from day one. I had my trans out, and saw absolutely nothing out of the ordinary in there.

only bothers me in parking lot maneuvering....

[Sunbeemer]

i find that mine clunks pretty hard if i engage the clutch quickly, does that sound like a "normal" noise to you?

Sure, it's a dry clutch so you hear a lot more of what's going on in there

[DAM650]

thanks guys, new noises plus paranoia and a good dose of ignorance........ that's me worrying

[peels]

thanks guys, new noises plus paranoia and a good dose of ignorance........ that's me worrying

yeah you will grow accustomed to it. LOL

I wear hearing protection, and it all just goes away.

I used to worry all the time. not so much now.... i ve had most of the systems apart, and saw how they work. Some noise is better than NO noise.

[junaid1122]

You will grow successfully