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Extension bits
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:27 pm
by MIXR
Yup - That was the longest part of the job - Getting the extension that was 'just right'. It was easier to undo the old one (17 mm head) than tighten the new one (15 mm head). Not because the head size was different, but because the 17 mm head sits a tiny bit higher than the 15 mm head. Probably only a mm in height difference, but made the installation a smidge harder. It's also a bit more difficult to 'load' the ratchet in the tightening direction (clockwise) than in the undo direction (anti-clockwise).
Nice to hear it worked out well for someone else. Was it a 'rattle and noise' issue that made you try it?
Re: Spring only?
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:06 am
by Kazushi
I asked for the parts using the P/N, only when I told them to look under the 1200GS they found the numbers in their data base. Anyway, no big deal, I'll just have a friend ship the parts from Germany for me, should be cheaper :-)
MIXR wrote:Kazushi,
The upgraded tensioner is the replacement part for the old style. If you walk into a dealer and ask for a tensioner for any of the 01-06 R1150 engines, and even the R1100 engines and R1200 engines I believe, you get the 'new' parts. The old type I removed is a dead item, unless someone is carrying old stock. So is the other (intermediate or second version) that was around for a year or two.
Replacing the spring on the old style tensioner is only a short term fix. It was the design of the assembly that was the problem, not just 'weak springs'. It's the way the oil gets in behind the piston, and how the parts slide with spring extension/compression as the cam chain 'whips'. The old design used to loose lubrication, and the spring couldn't compensate fast enough, hence the noises associated with cam chain slap.
The 'tensioner' doesn't really tension anything. It just applies a small amount of pressure to the cam chain to stop it slapping about as it rotates. When your oil is hot and thin, the old tensioner just can't work fast enough to do its job. More noticeable in some bikes than others, and brings into play questions about type of oil used, how hot, how many miles on the engine, how hard it has been used etc etc.
Many people told me that these noises were 'normal'. They are, but they are also very fixable. Check out the Adv Rider site for much more info. I think the TB removal on the GS is because the suspension arms are 'thicker' and you can't get in to do the job the way I did.
Don't let them just sell you a new spring!!!!!!
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:27 am
by Ed K
Thanks MIXR... as I recall, there are other postings on this site also on the same subject.
I still have the old tensioner on my '04... and interestingly, I have never had any noise on start-up, nor at idle.
But I do notice what sounds like some cam chain noise between 3.5K to 4.5 RPM. Its always done this. Never got worse, or better. A bit annoying sometimes, but not a big deal.
I've always wondered if changing the tensioner might help this noise. But I have never seen anyone indicate that they've had this noise before in this RPM range, and I dont like to go changing parts without being sure there some relationship to my particular noise.
Also, the shop (a very good one) that I go to says there's nothing unusual with my bike... so, for now, I left it with the old one.
Did yours make any noise in the 3.5K to 4.5K RPM range?
Thanks,
Rattles
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:41 am
by MIXR
Ed - See the other post on engine rattles - I've added some stuff that may be interesting and answer your questions. Mick.
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:58 pm
by ruddy
I just tried something to solve the dreaded left cam chain tensioner rattle, and I thought I'd share it with the rest of you. After reading Kazushi's comment that his BMW service department just changed the spring when the tensioner got too noisy got me to thinking that the spring must "sack out" like the ones for the suspension. If so, replacing it with a slightly longer one should cure the problem.
I found a 10 inch spring that was just a tiny hair smaller in diameter and felt like it had the same compression strength at my local hardware store for $3.25 US. I cut off a section that was approximately 1/4 inch longer than the one I removed. I installed it , and voila!, it worked like a champ!
I don't know how long the spring will last, but I expect it will hold up for quite a while. In any case, I have enough left for two more replacements. I figured this was worth a try, since I didn't want to part with around 150 bucks for the upgrade parts. I wonder too if the new tensioner is a permanent cure, or if its internal spring will eventually weaken over time.
Many thanks to MIXR for his great step-by-step instructions and photos. They made the job a lot easier.
Has anyone else tried this?
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:59 pm
by Byrdguy
The new tensioner is a completely different design, and I paid only about $60 IIRC.
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:20 pm
by TX2Step
Prices from Chicago BMW (from their website) in US$ are as follows:
Piston BC-1131 7656 922 - $31.20
Tensioner BC-1131 7688 629 - $20.80
Sealing Ring BM-0711 9963 308 - $0.17
Total-$52.17
Not a bad deal. Mine's getting pretty annoying. I think I'll order a set.
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:44 pm
by baltm604
The best part about Chicago BMW, when you walk back to the parts desk, they have the cam parts right there at the counter like mints at the drug store
Bill
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:31 pm
by MIXR
Yeah - but the Aussie ones come in a gold-plated plastic bag!
So why are we ripped off?
And don't say it's because we deserve it!
That's a hell of a mark-up being applied here. Surely freight isn't that expensive! Thievery! Shame Mr BMW, shame.
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:56 am
by TX2Step
MIXR wrote:So why are we ripped off?
And don't say it's because we deserve it!
That's a hell of a mark-up being applied here. Surely freight isn't that expensive! Thievery! Shame Mr BMW, shame.
I feel your pain, MIXR. Here in Houston, one of our local BMW dealers (the one closest to where I live, actually) routinely charges 10% to 20% OVER LIST for BMW parts. The other two dealers charge list but don't stock much. So I just try to plan ahead and order from Chicago.
I wonder if they'll ship to Australia?
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:30 pm
by TX2Step
Well, the cam chain tensioner and other parts ordered from Chicago showed up last Thursday. After procrastinating for 6 days I rechecked this thread and went out to the garage.
I'm happy to report that, 30 minutes later, the job is done. The procedure for the R1100R is very similar to what is shown above for the R1150R with the exception that there is not enough room between the engine and the telelever arm to fit a socket or even an extension. So, I had to take off the throttle body, which added some time. I disconnected everything except the throttle cable, and tied it up with a bungie to get it out of the way. I used offset box end wrenches to remove and install. I also used a telescopic magnet (like a radio antenna) te remove the old plunger from the engine (since I couldn't see down there to "fish" it out with a hook). Worked like a champ.
Started it up and after a few seconds of "tick tick tick" it's quieter than ever. All in all, a highly recommended upgrade for those with rattly cam chains!
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:14 am
by DJ Downunder
That's good to hear...I'll do mine myself one day.
btw I asked about having it done at my BMW dealer..and they said it's a H.U.G.E job...the wankers..
DJ
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:49 am
by Sunbeemer
I guess they don't have the advantage of reading this post!
Re: Part Numbers
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:48 pm
by riceburner
MIXR wrote:Oops - Forgot that bit. Prices are from Aus BMW so AUD$
Piston BC-1131 7656 922 - $75.58
Tensioner BC-1131 7688 629 - $52.25 (Also called a cylinder)
Sealing Ring BM-0711 9963 308 - $4.61 (Also called a crush washer)
Well worth the effort DJ. I was told it couldn't be done without removing or at least loosening the TB to get access, but my aviation experience told me that if you can see it, you can get to it. I believe others have also been succesful in not touching the TB, but it's a pretty snug fit. 8" fingers would be nice!
It may depend on how tight the old one is and how clean the bike is kept. You may not be able to get enough leverage to shift it if it has 'grown' in the threads. Mine was barely a 'nip' tight, so it cracked pretty easily and undid nicely.
If I'm getting a nasty sounding rattle,
especially when accelerating hard, would this be the cause (and cure
)???
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:58 pm
by baltm604
it could be. The one thing to also check is your oil level. I had the cam thing come and go based on the level of oil.
it really is a 15 minute job and probably worth the $50.00.
Does it make alot of noise when first started while the engine is still warming up? Mine did until the cam change.
Bill
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:12 pm
by duke
Hold on right there:
Is this problem related only to LEFT side?
I was about to ask a whole lot of other (stupid) questions ...
... but opened my Haynes book and saved myself from making MIXR's statement true for me
MIXR wrote: ...Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Please can someone state torque setting for tightening the assembly back?
Cheers
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:02 pm
by DJ Downunder
Is this problem related only to LEFT side?
yes...because the right side sits in oil and is not a problem...or something like that.
As for what torque..my guess would be just a small grunt..followed by an Arrr..job done..Mike might know but I'm not sure you will get a torque wench in there anyway.
Hey Mike...I priced the parts the other day and it was about $95 and $65 Aussie..but didn't have the third part..Yes we get ripped off down under that's for sure.
I'm always amazed at how prices can vary so much from one place to another..all being BMW dealers.
DJ
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:29 pm
by Boxer
What DJ said about getting a socket in there...But if you can, its 32 NM.
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:47 am
by duke
Thanks for the "left side only" and torque setting answer.
How would I know if I have "old style" or "new style" parts? According to some sources this only affects bikes built pre 2004 ... is this true? For all I know it is clattering a bit, but it is a flat boxer twin, 'innit?
I have not had other Oilhead ... and can't make difference from "noise when brand new" or "noise now".
Cheers
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:55 am
by Boxer
If you have a 15mm bolt head its the old...If its 17mm its the new...Or something like that. I may have it backwards.
Someone back me up here.