Need help with front brake bleeding

[kjk]

Hello, I'm new to this forum and relatively new to BMW bikes. I've got an 02 R1150 RT and the left fork seal started leaking, so I ordered the seal and replaced it, no problem there. I had disconnected the left caliper hose from the line before removing the fork leg (lost a little fluid but didn't think it would be a problem as I would need to bleed the line anyway). After getting everything back together I put a piece of tubing on the bleed nipple, turned the key on and pulled the brake lever until the servo engaged then cracked open the bleed nipple. It blows air and a couple of bubbles, for over 2 minutes straight with no fluid coming out (other than the small amount in the bubbles. I closed the nipple, scratched my head and tried again with the same results, no fluid. Any ideas on why the pump isn't getting fluid to the caliper would be appreciated. I know the line isn't clogged, there is definitely air coming through it. Thanks in advance for any advice.
keith

[combustor777]

Ok, just so we have it straight. You have the tank off with your adapter-funnel full of fluid on top of the open front servo reservoir and it's pumping air??

[kjk]

No, I've checked the reservoir on the handlebars and it is full, I have not taken the tank off. My understanding was that I didn't need to do that unless I wanted to flush the system with new fluid. I just want to bleed of the air that was introduced by removing the caliper. Thanks for your quick reply.

[combustor777]

No, I've checked the reservoir on the handlebars and it is full, I have not taken the tank off. My understanding was that I didn't need to do that unless I wanted to flush the system with new fluid. I just want to bleed of the air that was introduced by removing the caliper. Thanks for your quick reply.

There is your problem. The handlebar reservoir or "control circuit" as they call it doesn't go to the caliper. You need to access the "wheel circuit" which is in the ABS module under the tank. Even if you only lost a little fluid the system will malfunction if it's not at the correct level.

[iowabeakster]

Holy mackerel You have drained all of the fluid out of the front wheel circuit, via siphon action. You will have to take the tank off and all the fairing off your bike, and that's just the beginning of your fun. I'd just sell the bike now. I'm a seasoned pro at bringing those types of bikes back to life, so I'll make a generous offer. I'll take it off your hands for $400, if you pay to ship it to Iowa.

OK, its not that bad...but you do have some serious reading to do.

http://www.beachbus.net/BMW/diy/Bleed_W ... rcuits.htm
http://www.beachbus.net/BMW/diy/Bleed_C ... ircuit.htm
http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/brakes.shtml edit-- (the direct link does not work, but you can surf around the site to find the info on brake maintenance)
http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/service_abs3.pdf
http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/ab ... dapter.pdf

That last one is for the filling adapter. The parts are not available to make one anymore. I think you might be able to buy one somewhere on the internet...or you can improvise one if you understand what is going on.

[combustor777]

Holy mackerel You have drained all of the fluid out of the front wheel circuit, via siphon action. You will have to take the tank off and all the fairing off your bike, and that's just the beginning of your fun. I'd just sell the bike now. I'm a seasoned pro at bringing those types of bikes back to life, so I'll make a generous offer. I'll take it off your hands for $400, if you pay to ship it to Iowa.

OK, its not that bad...but you do have some serious reading to do.

http://www.beachbus.net/BMW/diy/Bleed_W ... rcuits.htm
http://www.beachbus.net/BMW/diy/Bleed_C ... ircuit.htm
http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/brakes.shtml
http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/service_abs3.pdf
http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/ab ... dapter.pdf

That last one is for the filling adapter. The parts are not available to make one anymore. I think you might be able to buy one somewhere on the internet...or you can improvise one if you understand what is going on.

You can buy a ready made funnel thingy from beemer boneyard but its like $50. You can make one for about $3 with some epoxy, rubber/brass plumbing fitting and funnel. Oh well your brakes probably needed flushing anyway!

[kjk]

Thanks to both of you for the help, I got pulled away from the computer last night and just saw these this morning. I'll have to think about that offer to buy the bike, shipping to Iowa might break the deal! Actually I started playing with motorcycles back in 68 when at age 12 I bought a Honda 90 that needed work. It's been a long and adventurous road from there but taking a bike apart is still more fun than intimidating. I'll read the articles and see if I can work that project in this weekend between the honey do's. I'm new to beemers, always have admired them and finally made the leap, so I really appreciate the help. I stumbled across this forum but it's in my bookmarks now so I'll be keeping an eye on things. Take care and ride safe.
keith

[Boxer]

Keith,
You're about the same age as my baby sister. Imagine a 12 year old and an 18 year old-ME being the 18 year old and YOU being the 12 year old-Knowing that, you can see I probably know far more than you do on just about any subject. Now just forget what anyone else on this board may or may not have told you, for your particular bike, this board is by far your best resource on the internet....along with maybe, the IBMWR site....or the ADV Rider site Hall of Wisdom.

it sounds like you are pretty handy with the tools though, for a 12 year old.....

OH CRAP! Now its coming back to me!.....Its not 1968!! YIKES! Where have I been? What's wrong with my head?!? Its 2009 and I'm almost 60 years old! How could this have happened?!?

That little trick with the brake caliper would have worked if you had a non-ABS motorcycle, but I guess you know that by now. A good tech session with our very own Cyclerob would benefit you as well. Check it out in another thread. Not sure I recall where right now...Not 18 anymore.

[Hottech]

Am I correct in thinking that I would need to buy 10 speed bleeders to do the job right? 1 for the clutch, 2 for front calipers,1 rear caliper and 6 for the ABS?

[llahbocaj]

Am I correct in thinking that I would need to buy 10 speed bleeders to do the job right? 1 for the clutch, 2 for front calipers,1 rear caliper and 6 for the ABS?

According to Speed Bleeders and the BMW shop manual...yes.

The ABS pump has bleed points for the following:

front dosing cylinder
front integral circuit
front control circuit
rear dosing cylinder
rear integral circuit
rear control circuit

...in addition to the two reservoir points that you will need a ministan funnel (or similar device) for filling.

I can already see an ABS-ectomy in my future should that pump go bad.

[combustor777]

Am I correct in thinking that I would need to buy 10 speed bleeders to do the job right? 1 for the clutch, 2 for front calipers,1 rear caliper and 6 for the ABS?

According to Speed Bleeders and the BMW shop manual...yes.

The ABS pump has bleed points for the following:

front dosing cylinder
front integral circuit
front control circuit
rear dosing cylinder
rear integral circuit
rear control circuit

...in addition to the two reservoir points that you will need a ministan funnel (or similar device) for filling.

I can already see an ABS-ectomy in my future should that pump go bad.

You don't need speedbleeders if you have a friend/spouse/neighbor who will give you 5 minutes of help....
Here is a picture of my filler adapter. Cost me $3 to make and works. No special gizmo required.
http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu15 ... 91835b.jpg
http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu15 ... 91835a.jpg

[iowabeakster]

You could buy 10 speedbleeders.

There is no benefit to having speedbleeders on the brake calipers, as the servo pump flushes the system with one squeeze.

I also have no speedbleeders on the ABS unit, since it easy enough to pump the front hand brake lever with my right hand and open/close the bleed nipples on the ABS unit with my left hand,. In the case of the rear contol circuit, I use my foot on the pedal. Some people might find this annoying. You make your call. To me, it is easier to keep my money.

The one place that speedbleeders do make it significantly easier, is the clutch. But I still choose to bend over the bike in an awkward way instead. My back does get tired, but the ache goes away in a couple hours.

[bmwdave52]

I have speedbleeders on my system. They do make things easier.

[kjk]

Well I went down to the hardware store and bought a rubber stopper for 60 cents, drilled a hole through it and stuck it on the end of a small funnel that I had in the gargare. It worked great and I was able to get the front wheel circuit filled and bled without any problems. Everythings back together and working like a charm. Thanks again for the good advice, I'm glad I found this forum. Safe riding to all of you.

[Boxer]

Wow! You ARE handy with the tools. Forget what I said before about me knowing more than you. Oh, would you like to buy some spark plugs, oil filter or air filter? I have all those, brand new, never been used...still in the packages. At 9K you're about ready for a tune-up.

PM me if interested.

Be careful of those old tires.