newbie question on cold weather starting...

[vegas_rider]

hi guys,

as some may know, i picked up my first R back in sept, and i'm a year round rider here in las vegas. i did a search and found a thread on cold weather starting regarding different oil types to use, but i'm not too sure if it addressed what i'm actually experiencing.

basically the bike has been riding flawlessly without a hitch since i've owned it. that last time i rode it into work was tuesday 12/15, and it was about a low of 40F that day. wednesday i took the cage to work, and by nightime it had gotten to about 31 which is the coldest temps that i've actually owned the bike in. I walk into the garage, try to start the bike and no go.

i don't think it's the battery as when you turn the key all the lights fire up, and the bike tries to kick over but just doesnt? and it makes a weird very rapid knocking noise now when you press the iginition isntead of the normal start up sounds...i just tried it again this morning (thurs) and same result...gas is full, choke was all the way up, everything should be good but nothing?

should i express concern, or is the bike literally just too cold now? i haven't had to change any fluids in it since i've owned it, so i'm not sure what grade of everything is currently in the bike?


thanks guys.

[duke]

Do you mean clicking sound?

Take the starter cover off and measure the voltage (easiest in my opinion (might be wrong) to reach.)

I can't tell you what the Voltage should be but ... I am sure you can see on Google (or search here).

HTH

Duke

[vegas_rider]

yep clicking more accurate description. going to try and throw it on a tender.

[vegas_rider]

lol battery harder to get to than i thought it would be, can't get the alligator clamps from the tender on without raising the gas tank a little bit. anyone got a link on the forum to an easy way to get that tank up just a bit in order to access the battery terminals?


thanks!

[Sunbeemer]

last time i rode it into work was tuesday 12/15

Dude, what time zone are you in? 12/15 hasn't happened yet here!
Maybe that UFO in Roswell has created a time warp around Nevada

To answer your question though, the battery is not able to generate enough current to the starter to crank your motor, and that rapid knocking noise is the starter's solenoid (a large relay) chattering on and off as it: 1. initially closes when you push the "start" button to connect the starter to the battery, 2. then the starter draws all the current the battery can deliver at that temp, and 3. the solenoid opens because the battery can't deliver enough current to keep it closed. This all happens many times a second, causing the "rapid knocking" noise you hear... a car with a low battery will do the same.

The answer has less to do with oil than the condition of the battery. If you can store the bike in a warmer place, that will probalby solve the immediate problem. You could try putting the bike's battery on a battery tender (search this forum for info about good ones) that will maintain a peak charge on the battery (easy through the accessory receptacle) which may help depending on the state of your battery, or you could just replace the battery.

About oil weight: 31 deg F is a little cold for 20W50 oil, but you probably don't stay at that temp for more than a few minutes after starting, so little harm is being done to your motor. If you expect it to stay that cold for long though, changing to 10W30 for the winter (only) would be fine and make it easier to start in the morning.

[vegas_rider]

LOL was totally looking at the wrong week, but yes those aliens down here can jack stuff up for us at times lOL!!


thanks for the response. so there's a BMW made tender or specifc tender that can just plug right into the accessory plug down by the gear shifter? that would be loads easier but i'm sure it costs lots of money lol...

i have an old 12v deltran tender from my bonneville, but it has the alligator clamps on it which need to clamp on the terminals on the batt. opened up the seat and saw that the battery is hardly easily accessible lol, looking for info to get the gas tank rasied a bit so i don't have to dump $$$ on a new tender lol.

[MattPie]

LOL was totally looking at the wrong week, but yes those aliens down here can jack stuff up for us at times lOL!!


thanks for the response. so there's a BMW made tender or specifc tender that can just plug right into the accessory plug down by the gear shifter? that would be loads easier but i'm sure it costs lots of money lol...

i have an old 12v deltran tender from my bonneville, but it has the alligator clamps on it which need to clamp on the terminals on the batt. opened up the seat and saw that the battery is hardly easily accessible lol, looking for info to get the gas tank rasied a bit so i don't have to dump $$$ on a new tender lol.

Vegas,

If you have an 04, you may already have the jumper-studs on the bike. Right next to the accessory outlet, there might be a black cap with a big + on it. Guess which that is. The negative terminal is on the left cylinder, uncovered, down under the intake tube. The alligator clips work fine on those, that what I used until I got an adapter for the power port. The adapter is fairly cheap, and nicer than dealing with clips:
http://www.amazon.com/Powerlet-Basic-Pl ... 551&sr=1-6

As for the Deltran, there are two types of Battery Tender Plus, one for GEL AND everything else, one for everything except GEL. The non-gel one ends in -0128, the gel part number ends in -0156. If you have the GEL battery (BMW OEM) in your bike. In theory you should use a GEL charger, it uses slightly different voltages. I've been using a non-GEL -0128 charger on my 5-year-old BMW GEL battery for two years and it works, but it supposedly will shorten the life of the battery. I figure with 5 years on it already, I'll roll with the current charger, and buy an AGM battery when this one fails.

[duke]

lol battery harder to get to than i thought it would be, can't get the alligator clamps from the tender on without raising the gas tank a little bit. anyone got a link on the forum to an easy way to get that tank up just a bit in order to access the battery terminals?


thanks!

Invest some time to remove the tank and install proper charging terminal extension.
You will thank yourself later for the effort!
Just beware of snapping the lugs off the plastic radiator covers.
While at it, open the airbox from there and remove anything which does not belong in.

Cheers

Duke

[duke]

lol battery harder to get to than i thought it would be, can't get the alligator clamps from the tender on without raising the gas tank a little bit. anyone got a link on the forum to an easy way to get that tank up just a bit in order to access the battery terminals?


thanks!

Invest some time to remove the tank and install proper charging terminal extension.
You will thank yourself later for the effort!
Just beware of snapping the lugs off the plastic radiator covers.
While at it, open the airbox from there and remove anything which does not belong in.

Cheers

Duke

[duckdave]

I have an 04.
Re: Charging battery. I use hemostats (old ones, no longer useful at work) to extend the terminals so I can get the proper hookup for a clip-style battery charger.

Re: does an 04 have a + terminal outside the battery? Some do, some don't. Mine does not. I remove the cover which gives me access to the starter. I can get a good positive connection under there. Negative connections are everywhere...the engine fins, metal body parts, exhaust...prolly some are better than others.

I stopped having problems when I replaced the starter and the battery.

I recommend http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/
I paid $189 for a complete starter for my '04 RR (including shipping) this past November [that would be 2 Novembers back, iirc]. Arrived in 2 days. I recommend calling and talking to the guy as they also sell replacement parts of starters and he can troubleshoot most problems on the phone, so you might get off cheaper.

Re the battery? Replace with an Odyssey battery.

I got an new battery and a new starter. Problems solved. Probably just needed an new starter. Probably could have just cleaned my starter up and it would work just fine. A future project...

Note: I do NOT keep my bike on a battery tender (or similar). And I do not change my oil to a 'winter' grade. No problems, so far. But, I am considering changing to a more fluid-at-low-temperatures oil for the winter, but have not yet. Live in Little Rock. Temps this week into the 20s at night, 40s in the day, all this week.

[towerworker]

You didn't say whether or not your battery is the original but if it is then you have 5yr+ old battery. Time for a new one. An aging and weak battery will show up on a cold morning. I run 20/50 weight oil most of the year but when it starts getting below 40 I change to 10/40 weight oil. My bike would not start nor crank quickly enough on a 10 degree morning. I changed to 10/40 the next day (it was 7 degrees) and it started. It really didn't want to but it started. I don't ride in those temps any more but the lighter weight oil made the difference.

But my first course of action (in my opinion) would be to change out the battery for a new one. The Odyssey is an excellent choice. Also the Battery Tender comes with an extra wiring pigtail that you can attach a BMW male plug (to match the accessory socket) I think the plug is less then $15 from your BMW dealer. You could then plug the tender directly into the accessory socket.

Good luck!

Wayne

[timl]

Does anyone have experience using one of those magnetic engine block heaters? In cold weather it would be better to start up with warm oil. Better for the engine; less demand on the battery.

[NoRRmad]

...Remember, the R engine is aluminum... (Non-magnetic.)

[Biff's R]

If you run Castrol Syntec 5-50, you will have a much easier start up and quicker warm up. I bought Mobil 1 15-50 since it was on sale last time, and it is a noticable difference in cold starting vs the Castrol.

I have an adapter for the BMW accessort plug that connects to my Battery Tender. Can't get any easier.

[CycleRob]

vegas_rider,

Your battery is toast and needs to be replaced. Charging it will not restore the cold cranking Amps your battery has lost forever to sulfation. The cold weather reveals a weak battery. BTDT!!

Odyssey PC-680 is what you need. More expensive, but better all around than anyone else's brand.

.