Seeking a lab for oil analysis

[Bill Stevenson]

Does anyone have a recommendation for an independent lab for oil analysis? I know Don likes Blackstone and I have contacted them and received their sample bottle and form, but I am not completely comfortable with their approach. All of my previous experience was with the Kendall lab, but they only test their own oil and I am using BMW oil in my bike. Texaco does the lab work for my son's business, but again Texaco only test their own oil.

Thanks,

Bill

[mistral]

Polaris, Houston TX, I think there is also southwest labs in San Antonio.

Ron

[jess]

Dumb question: what's the motivation to do an oil analysis? I've seen it referenced here a few times but am mystified by the goal.

[ka5ysy]

Been using these guys for years. Very competent analysis and suggestions with each report.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Dumb question: what's the motivation to do an oil analysis? I've seen it referenced here a few times but am mystified by the goal.

They have the capability to tell you what a proper oil change interval is. Generally it is longer than you would think. Analysis can also spot potential failures in rings, bearings etc. before they become a major expense item. In other words, it is great preventive maintenance.

[jess]

They have the capability to tell you what a proper oil change interval is. Generally it is longer than you would think. Analysis can also spot potential failures in rings, bearings etc. before they become a major expense item. In other words, it is great preventive maintenance.

Ah. Thanks. Without getting into specifics or making anything that would resemble a general recommendation, can you give me a ballpark of how much of a difference it can make in oil change interval? Are we talking 10% or 50% here?

[deilenberger]

Ah. Thanks. Without getting into specifics or making anything that would resemble a general recommendation, can you give me a ballpark of how much of a difference it can make in oil change interval? Are we talking 10% or 50% here?

Jess - good question.

For people who persist in following the change intervals that their grandfathers used (1,000 miles, 3,000 miles - we're talking at least 100%, sometimes 600%). For those of us who follow BMW's recommendations - less. Blackstone has commented on my oil being very clean at 6,000 mile intervals, and having adequate additive package left in it to go another 2k miles. Not a huge increase. I change at 6k because it's easy to remember to do it.. so I'm not gaining anything from that. It does provide me with piece of mind that all is OK inside the engine - for a pretty minimal cost.

Should everyone do it? I think at least once after the bike is broken in is a good idea. Should it be done at every change interval? I don't. I tend to do it at major changes - every 12k or even 24k would be fine.

[jess]

Thanks for that explanation, Don. It's very helpful.

Coming from the Vespa world (where Piaggio tells us we should change the oil and filter every 3000 miles) the 6k service interval on the BMW is, well... rather luxurious. Given that, I don't know if I'm personally that motivated to extend the interval.

[Bill Stevenson]

Thank you for the names of additional labs, which I will look into. As far as why oil analysis is useful it certainly can help to extend the interval between changes, but for a motorcycle the cost for the test would undoubtedly exceed the cost of just changing the oil more frequently. For a large diesel engine needing a lot of oil, on the other hand, the cost for the test is easily justifiable. Too, owners of commercial vehicles and fleets use oil analysis as a method to identify service needs for their vehicles. It is an essential tool for them. For us as hobbyists it is interesting, but not essential. For example, if your valves are out of adjustment an oil analysis can pick that up. If your air filter has a hole in it or is otherwise past prime, an oil analysis can spot the problem. If the rings are failing, or you have a leaking head gasket and so on, all can be detected through oil analysis. If the oil analysis is done on a systematic basis, wear trends will develop that can be useful to predict the need for overhaul, or trade-in. In my case, I want to see how much oxidation has occurred in the oil after 6,000 miles of service in our hot climate here in South Florida. My temp gauge routinely (as in almost every ride) goes up to just one bar short of the top of the range, so I have reason to want to know how much oxidation has occurred. Blackstone does not do a comparative analysis (i.e. new oil versus used oil) so oxidation is one of the things they can't accurately account for. I am sure they are a good lab, but they are starting from an assumed baseline rather than from certain knowledge of the oil undergoing analysis. This is a very esoteric point, but then oil analysis for motorcycles in pretty far out there in the first place. Clearly we who participate in this forum have taken our motorcycle hobby a lot further than the average bear. And those of use who worry about oil analysis at all, never mind the merits of different approaches, are really on the fringe. Ain't it fun?

Thanks again everyone,

Bill

[outnabout]

Can't you send a sample of the oil that you are using (virgin) and a sample of the oil after it has been used for 6,000 miles and compare the results? It seems that you would get the best comparison. I don't know the answer, just asking the question.

[Bill Stevenson]

Yes you are absolutely correct and that is what I want. By comparing a sample of virgin oil to the same but used oil, it is possible to know exactly where you are at. That is why the oil companies who offer oil analysis services only test their own products for which they have the baseline data. This is the best methodology to use, but it doubles the cost if the lab must test two samples.

Bill

[deilenberger]

Yes you are absolutely correct and that is what I want. By comparing a sample of virgin oil to the same but used oil, it is possible to know exactly where you are at. That is why the oil companies who offer oil analysis services only test their own products for which they have the baseline data. This is the best methodology to use, but it doubles the cost if the lab must test two samples.

Bill

Bill - it only doubles the initial testing cost.

If you want - I'll go halves with you on getting them to test a virgin sample of BMW 15W-50 Synthetic.. then we'll both have the data (actually suspect if we ask nicely - both of us - they might do it gratis..)

[Bill Stevenson]

Don,

That is not a bad idea and it is a generous offer. Actually I sort of did ask, but with hindsight not clearly or well. Since you are an existing customer maybe they would be more agreeable if the request came from you? Dunno just a thought. Either one of us can send them a sample of virgin oil. Let me know your thoughts on the best approach and I will proceed as you suggest. I don't mind paying for the extra test and wouldn't mind posting the results in the forum for the use of others if that is agreeable.

Thanks,

Bill

P.S. Just to confirm it is BMW 15W50 Synthetic that we are both using.

[deilenberger]

Bill,

Done. Will see what they reply..

Don

[deilenberger]

Bill,

Success. I'll be sending them a virgin sample next week.

Don

[Bill Stevenson]

Don,

Thank you ever so much. Tell me where to send my check.

Bill

[deilenberger]

Bill..

Report is in: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=20549&p=180939#p180939

Blackstone generously did the virgin analysis for free - and they know it will be posted here. Thanks for giving me the nudge to get it done!

Don