Led tail light to replace OEM

[redwing]

I did a search for a post that pointed to a single replacement led lamp and couldn't find a real number or a specific place selling one. I can buy an led 1157 from autozone but I think the autozone light would cause a "lamp" error.
Who sells a canbus compatible led light. There are quit a few for sale at several web sights.

Robert

[websterize]

Robert, the OEM route involves replacing the entire tail light assembly with the LED equivalent and requires dealer coding to clear the lamp error the new one causes (because of the much-reduced power draw). I don't think a GS911 will fix the error.

If you go OEM, you want the SAE version. PN 63 21 8 526 958. About $200 for the light and $75 to clear the error. Here it is on my bike:

[vroomr]

I just installed an LED assembly the other day. My independent shop can't clear the error, but they say a new software release is imminent, which may have the capability. A dealer visit is my last resort.

[mogu83]

If your thinking of just replacing the bulb with an LED type replacement - good luck. I never found a replacement type LED lamp that would do the job in a brake light. I have the complete LED unit in one of my other bikes (not the R) and it does a good job. I did run an aftermarket halogen type bulb in the rear for a few years and it worked well except when I spent a few weeks riding in the Southwest in the 100 degree heat and the bulb actually fell apart (the glue melted). IMHO the best way to go is accessory brake lights.

[SF_Hooligan]

IMHO the best way to go is accessory brake lights.

100% agree with this. The taillight is especially hidden with a topcase - which is pretty much all the time for me. I put Skenes on my license plate frame and it made a significant difference in people staying further off my six when braking.

[deilenberger]

One other point on aftermarket LED lights in the rear. The bulb monitor looks at the current it can pass through a filament to determine if it's burned out. This used to be a simple current measurement with the bulb lit, but later model systems (coming from the car side of BMW) also use a very short pulse of current every XX seconds - not enough to light the light. If current draw isn't seen, the system switches the remaining bulb over to combined brake/taillight use - meaning it gets 1/2 voltage as a tail/running light and full voltage as a brake light. This is true for either light in the rear assembly.

Most LEDs will not tolerate the low voltage, and may heat up as they did on Harry's bike. And since they draw very little current - they will usually trigger the fault (and low voltage use) unless they specifically say "Canbus Compatible Load Resistors".

Just a heads up. There is a good reason to consider the factory setup. And have your ZFE module reprogrammed to accept it (it turns the test off since they assume the LED can't burn out, and will run at full voltage.)

BTW- I'm a big believer in supplemental lights. I have a RunNLites Tail-Blazer under my plate, and the turnsignals have LED modules from Germany that not only function as turnsignals - they also have a row of RED LED's that tie into the brake light. It's quite an effective show when I hit the brake. Worked today when a car stopped quickly in front of me and the guy tailgating me realized I was stopping (and getting ready to swerve around the car stopping in front of me if the dude behind me was texting or something..)

[websterize]

Don, thanks for the clarification -- had always assumed the error was from reduced draw.

Re: LED tails, did anybody see this March 13 spec sheet (PDF) from Motorrad? Looks as if most new models, including the R12R, will ship with LED tails as standard. There might be a new part number or simplified retrofit kit.

[vroomr]

Don, if I run my BMW LED assembly without having reprogrammed the electronics, am I endangering the LEDs?

Also, as to the pulse you describe, I notice that the taillight shows an instantaneous dim flash as soon as I turn the key, then goes dark before coming on steadily. Based on your description, I assume that flash is the result of a test pulse.

[dbrick]

For several years, I ran an LED replacement for the brake/tail bulb because it'd flash the brake illumination. A few months ago, however, I rode with xprof, and we switched bikes for awhile. Riding behind my own bike in daylight, I saw the flashing, but was...horrified would be too strong a word...amazed at how dim the tail and brake illumination actually was. My theory is that the LED assembly had too few (only three) diodes, and they pointed directly aft, and it just wasn't enough light. If BMW OEM LED replacement has more LEDs, like some of the aftermarket turn signal modules, it might be suitably bright.

I pulled the LED replaced it with the stock bulb. This actually did a far better job of full illumination in both tail and brake functions, presumably because the reflector gathered and sent rearward almost the entire sphere of illumination created by the incandescent bulb. But of course it didn't flash.

To secure a flashing brake, I bought Skene's P3. They're fabulous. I tried the P3's turn signal function, but the color combination (amber turn signals, red P3 LEDs) was distracting even 'though the lights flashed in unison. I disconnected the turn signal function, and left the P3s to provide tail and brake information.

[mogu83]

Exactly the point I was making about using the LED type replacement bulbs. They work great in the directional location but are severely lacking as a brake light. The complete unit that replaces everything in the brake unit is an entirely different animal, I think the one I have in my /5 has 48 LEDs in it.

I have my P3 lamps wired directly to the wires for the tail and brake lights and in at least two years and have never had any problems.

The problem I had with the taillight bulb melting was an halogen tail light bulb replacement not an LED. I should also mention that in over two years the, it appears, increased heat from the halogen bulb had absolutely no effect on the taillight assembly or lens.
(https://www.kisantech.com/view_product_ ... uct=20W-DZ) and I was very happy with it (very bright) till it stopped working. Actually I've re-glued it and may put it back in as it did a good job.
It was the brass ring that came unglued:

[deilenberger]

Don, if I run my BMW LED assembly without having reprogrammed the electronics, am I endangering the LEDs?

Also, as to the pulse you describe, I notice that the taillight shows an instantaneous dim flash as soon as I turn the key, then goes dark before coming on steadily. Based on your description, I assume that flash is the result of a test pulse.

Depends on the design of the LED module, and how the circuitry works. If it's one that flashes (in normal operation) - I'd be quite cautious using it if it's the only light source connected to the circuit. If the brake failure warning light comes on - it's running at 1/2 voltage, and I've burned up a flashing LED taillight that way. If it doesn't trigger the warning light on the dash, it's probably fine - since the ZFE would have no reason to drop the voltage.

[Anyname]

+1 on adding Skene auxiliary lights. I thought about just replacing the stock bulb with an LED but most of the reviews I could find implied that the LED replacements were too directional to be effective. There were some that claimed to have resistors that would keep the Can Bus syste from showing a fault.

The Skenes were easy to install, bright and they have several sets of programmed behavior to help wake up the guy behind you. I have a LED auxiliary brake light from Motorrad Electric on my 86 R80. It was even cheaper and also works well.

[websterize]

The jury is still out.

We are unable to draw any meaningful conclusion because our database did not include a single make-model that switched from incandescent to LED or vice-versa without other simultaneous major changes.

Effectiveness of LED Stop Lamps for Reducing Rear-End Crashes: Analyses of State Crash Data, NHTSA, February 2013

[mogu83]

Bill,
I think the issue (as if we need an issue) is LED tail light units vs LED type replacement bulbs. Most (if not all) the replacement units I've seen are arrays of LEDs, as I posted the unit in my /5 has 48 LEDs in it. Yours was the first and only LED type unit for the R1200R that I've actually spent some time riding behind and it did the job very well, and that was in the full sunlight.

[vroomr]

The dealer introduced my canbus to the led taillight today, charging me 1/2 hour labor. Not only is the lamp error gone, it looks like the running illumination is a tad dimmer and/or the brake lighting is much brighter. Not surprising, now that the bike isn't trying to compensate for what it read as burned out filaments.

[redwing]

Hi.. I have considered adding resistors to a led light and have looked for a light with a pattern visible from side and back. I found leds claiming to have resistors built-in and compatible with canbus systems.??? The link shows one of many on ebay and there are others sold by manufactures. It seems we have another light choice.
Would this thing work without an arrow (error) message?
This one is listed as having 260lm. Is that bright?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1157-BAY15D-505 ... vi-content

[deilenberger]

Hi.. I have considered adding resistors to a led light and have looked for a light with a pattern visible from side and back. I found leds claiming to have resistors built-in and compatible with canbus systems.??? The link shows one of many on ebay and there are others sold by manufactures. It seems we have another light choice.
Would this thing work without an arrow (error) message?
This one is listed as having 260lm. Is that bright?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1157-BAY15D-505 ... vi-content

Dunno on the error - it depends on the current draw the ZFE expects to see. The only way to know is to try it..

I will comment on the design. These are naked LEDs - no focusing mechanism at all (reflector, lens, etc..) so they will appear as bright spot sources of light. Dunno how this might work in our brake light reflector which is designed around a single "line" light source (the filament) and is undoubtedly engineered to optimize the light from that source.

How bright is 260lm (LM=Lumens, a measurement of light)? Also can't say since a lot of the light from this is coming from the sides, and that light may not be visible much from the rear of the bike (where you need it). Again - trying it might provide the answer.

Useless knowledge: Lumens are generally measured in an "integrating sphere" - where all the light from all directions is measured. The integrating sphere is usually a basket-ball sized/shaped device with the interior painted white. The bulb being tested is put at one point in the sphere and the sensors reading the the light at an opposite point. The idea being the round white interior will reflect all the light from the light source creating an equally bright "integrated" light inside the sphere. Google or Wikipedia will probably tell you lots more useless info about this sort of measurement. In general - the measurement is somewhat useless when the light source is used in a reflective housing - our brake light housing - for a specific purpose. It is a useful measurement when comparing apples to apples - ie - similar light sources of differing brightness. Oh yeah - In real life, many decades ago I used to know this sort of thing.

[David R]

I put LED tail lights in a few trucks. The flasher and other things did not see the draw of a regular bulb, so the blinkers blinked fast (like a bulb was blown) OR on my ford truck, the torque converter would not lock up and the cruise control would not work. The computer thought I had my foot on the brake because the path to ground was not there. With a regular bulb, its grounded all the time.

I put a regular tail light bulb in the circuit where it could not be seen. When the brakes were applied, or the signal light was put on, the computer saw the bulb and thought everything was OK.

It worked for me.

David