modified r1150 r clutch hub

[CDNBOY]

just had a hub spacer made for my 1150r clutch -5mm thickness, and will send out the new Siebenrock basic clutch to a local rebuilder to have it all riveted back together
clutch $125, spacer $120 (cnc machined)+ shipping to and fro rebuilder.....I shouldn't have more than $300 in it total
will let all know how this works when I get a few miles on it

[bransan]

Why?
What is the problem you are trying to fix?

[CDNBOY]

putting this clutch disk in to have all the tranny input spline surface used.....some bright BMW engineer designed the original where the splines were not making 100% contact with input shaft....this will fix the problem hopefully avoiding the stripped spline syndrome where there has been quite a few owners experiencing spline failure
my original clutch is fine but this is a preventative fix

[CDNBOY]

3000 miles on the modified clutch and no problems

[sstein]

Where did you get the 5 mm hub spacer?

[sweatmark]

This board's own member, vwdoctor, has made such a clutch hub spacer for many of us. He has good topic thread in the ADV Rider vendor section, if anyone's interested. I received my own clutch spacer from Esmir last week, and will tackle the install during dark cold wet depths of winter.

[vwdoctor]

As mentioned by sweatmark if you are interested let me know.
Here is the basic setup

[sstein]

I am thinking about inspecting the input shaft splines and hub this winter as well. 2002 R1150R with 22K miles, rides great.

1) is it too early to check that (only 22K miles)? Should I wait?

2) if I get in there and decide to mount the spacer, what would the wait time be between ordering and arrival? I live in Providence, Rhode Island, USA.

I think this will be the bike I'll keep for the long term, so I guess it would make sense to get it mounted now?

Any advice would be great.

Steven

[peels]

I am thinking about inspecting the input shaft splines and hub this winter as well. 2002 R1150R with 22K miles, rides great.

1) is it too early to check that (only 22K miles)? Should I wait?

2) if I get in there and decide to mount the spacer, what would the wait time be between ordering and arrival? I live in Providence, Rhode Island, USA.

I think this will be the bike I'll keep for the long term, so I guess it would make sense to get it mounted now?

Any advice would be great.

Steven

HA!

Almost this exact post from me... minus the R.I. part. oh and Im right at only 20k.

Once again, great work "vwdoctor"

I think my plan is right now....the bike is put up because of clutch slave and worn tires-waiting on time and replacements, ill pull the starter again and try the "wiggle the clutch" move and see if there's a ton of play...if not go ride til winter. UNLESS I get it back together and the clutch slips due to brake fluid contamination(I think Im ok) then that will obviously force my hand

[sstein]

Wow, you got that right peels. I found your original post, but couldn't get it's thread to open. You're right - I should have just quoted you Did you end up getting the spacer?
Can you describe the "wiggle the clutch move?" What does it tell you? What is a positive vs a negative result?

[peels]

Wow, you got that right peels. I found your original post, but couldn't get it's thread to open. You're right - I should have just quoted you Did you end up getting the spacer?
Can you describe the "wiggle the clutch move?" What does it tell you? What is a positive vs a negative result?

No not yet, the bike is up still. time,money, I have neither right now lol..I hope to get it going next week.

the clutch wiggle, as I found from researching. I did it Once, right when I bought my bike after hearing about this... but I was a real noob, and not real confident I knew what I was doing LOL!

it seems more logical as a precaution until one has more time to pull the whole trans. Which is really the only way to tell.

remove the starter, tie the clutch lever in, and turn clutch by pushing with a screwdriver or a punch. I have forgotten how much play youre looking for on the outside, though I do remember someone posting that theirs moved almost an inch WHEN THE SPLINES WERE BAD. up to 1/4" or 8mm good maybe? I know mine felt like 1/4" when I looked. But, I was more "feeling" it, and had no guidelines.

SO, if it has alot of play, Or, if it slips... Ill order the clutch spacer(and a new disc). Then, when I replace it in the winter, Ill inspect splines for sure. if it's WAY bad....well, its trans time I imagine.

[carl1957]

I received my spacer last week. Began the job a few days ago. My frustration thresh hold is low, so I stop when the going gets rough. So, I'm at the slave cylinder. The 3 bolts are out. Clymer says to pull the slave cylinder straight out. Well, the sucker will not budge. Acts as if the bolts are still in. Has anyone been there? How do I get the slave cylinder to move straight out?

Phil

[CycleRob]

carl1957,
Just pull in the clutch lever! It's only stuck in place by the gasket, which has to rip apart before the slave will move. There is a pry tab protruding inboard from the upper left bolt on the slave casting . . . feel for it. You can tap that with a short drift punch and a hammer -or- use the banjo bolt as a prying/thumping point until the gasket bond is broken.

About the clutch hub, first thing is drilling out the old rivits without damaging the hub. Then, HOW do YOU stake the new ones? Incrementally with a BFH? (BigFrikkenHammer), 2 ton press? There's a lot of room for serious mistakes. I recommend the semi skilled wrenchers take the parts to the crafty/experienced guys at most local machine shops, that usually never retreat from a mechanical challenge.

The big variable I see with this well designed spacer is installing the rivets!! I would jewely scale weigh each one and put equal weighted rivits opposing each other.

.

[carl1957]

Thanks for chiming in! I had reached for the clutch lever having forgotten that I'd undone the banjo bolt... I'll go for the tab. I have a ten ton press, but I read Esmir's post in the other forum, that a bigger one is better. I was considering bolts, and I hear you on balancing the fasteners, it's a smooth motor. Could I trust a machine shop to balance the fasteners? I must get down there first...

Phil

[vwdoctor]

Couple of thoughts on the subject.
Weight of the rivets should not be an issue. They should be pretty close anyway, and given the location of the weight (almost at the center), you would have to spin the thing pretty fast to cause issue (much higher than 8000rpms).
In either case if you want to weight them you could pick the lightest one and file away the rest to match. I am pretty sure we are talking about the tenths of gram at this point.
As far as setting them the part that spins in my engine was done with a hammer. I held the parts with 4 bolts, hammered the rivets, took the bolts out, and hammered the other 4. It was done with 3/16 rivets which are smaller than the ones I supply (4.75mm vs 5.00 mm), so I am basically running close to worst case scenario in my bike.

There is a good tutorial on ADV forum and there was one install done by a member here on one of the other thread recently with very nice looking results.

I have designed a tool for them but I have never used it.

Here is the bottom piece.



and the top piece



The picture shows two spacers stacked (didnt have the hub on me) but you get the idea.

[carl1957]

The good news, at 12,000 Miles, there is no visible wear on the input shaft splines, or the clutch hub splines. Bad news is, my /2 friction disc centering tool is too fat. Does anyone sell said tool?

The slave cylinder left an alarming quantity of grey dust in the back of the gearbox housing. The stuff was caked all around the cylinder itself, having it be a bear to pull out. What is this stuff??

[carl1957]

I'm using a ten ton press to do the rivets. Four bolts hold the hub in place, while four rivets are pressed, one at a time.

[carl1957]

The good news, at 12,000 Miles, there is no visible wear on the input shaft splines, or the clutch hub splines. Bad news is, my /2 friction disc centering tool is too fat. Does anyone sell said tool?

For a clutch disc centering tool, I used a section of 5/8ths oak dowl, slightly sharpened on one end to do the job. The dowel was a bit loose in the hub, so it was wrapped a couple of times with duct tape. It worked fine.

[sykospain]

The clutch hub spacer sourced in the USA by Esmir is actually 6mm thick, not 5mm, and results when fitted to the clutch friction plate hub, in its splines covering the full length of the gearbox input shaft splines at this crucial point in the bike's transmission, when all the oomph of an 80 or 90 hp motor is concentrated on a mere 14mm of lightly nickel-plated splined rod.

We all know that the OEM plate even when ordered as a replacement part from Berlin today via your local BMW Stealer, only covers about 65 to 75 percent of the splines, leading to premature wear as the plate dances about whilst sliding in and out of forward drive. And I say once more that the Germans refuse to acknowledge any problem in their flawed design and have never offered to correct it by simply asking their clutch plate supplier Sachs AG to make them a plate with a longer hub !
Vee noaw vots best, Tommy.
But remember, this too-short-hub design fault applies to all hydraulic clutch R1150 oilhead bikes, not forgetting the great R1100S sports bike - and even the James Bond film-chase 1200 Cruiser too.
Trouble is, if you buy a spacer,how do you fit it to the dis-assembled de-rivetted friction plate ? See my video Number One :-
http://youtu.be/FHv6wcHMZzA

Esmir says he has not so far used his re-rivetting kit, but my grandson in the UK in his University metallurgy studies extensively-equipped workshop has expanded on Esmir's design to produce the 4 pieces of tool steel that you see in this short video:-
http://youtu.be/NVIVT_2yBRQ

He's hoping in the New Year with the aid of a 60-tonne hydraulic press, to source modified spacer'ed clutch plates for EU riders at much less cost than Bruno's $600 plate, but you know what young lads are like - snogging the girlfriend comes first.
And as for BMW's crappy hydraulic clutch slave cylinder hidden in front of the bike's rear wheel suspension spring, see Chris Harris's two-minute video and realise why it's essential to replace that joke part also, whenever you contemplate doing any clutch servicing, which again ze Krauts say is unnecessary :-
http://youtu.be/xXyx4Dwx7Mw

And finally to BMW's clutch bleeder....the Werkstück, or as they say in English, the 'factory chunk' on the end of the bleeder hose - another complete rollocks...
http://youtu.be/udpZPKoEH50

Otherwise a fab bike of course....
AL in s.e. Spain

[peels]

Vee noaw vots best, Tommy

HAHAHAHA yes VEE do.

whats your vid about the slave cylinder about? blocked at work.... Ill watch later...