down shift while turning....

[socalrob]

Darth,

I agree 100 percent. Without actually experiencing throttle, shifting up/down, brakes, body lean, weight shift, steering by legs, counter steering, the mysterious physics of motorcycle riding would remain a mystery.

Especially if you have ABS & partially linked brakes & telelever & all the wierd stuff on our BMW's. I definately practice braking (both with rear only & with linked front brake) mid corner just so that when I have to in an emergency I will have some concept about where I'll be heading afterward. I don't think its hard / unsafe to practice as long as you are well within your limits & know the road.

[Bones]

Bruno,
I do not mean to argue, but in the interest of correct information being disseminated:

Your statement "the more you lean the more grip your tires are generating to keep the lean" is just plain wrong. It may be true that the LATERAL FORCES applied to the tires are greater when a bike is leaned into a turn than when upright, but the GRIP is less. There is an inverse relationship between traction and lean angle, period. That is why the control inputs at maximum lean angle must be done with a lot more skill than when the bike is fully upright.

It may seem like semantics, but having read SO many posts that have led people astray, and more importantly, held wrong information as "truth" in my earlier riding days, I think it is important that these things be explained correctly.


Also, "a twin can provide more gross input that a multi...." well, not exactly. In general, twins can create more torque at a given lower rpm, BUT most multis (triples, fours, etc. ) can generate more power at higher rpms and will generally run at higher rpms. In fact, you are more likely to "get into trouble" in the areas we are discussing on a multi running up in its power band than with a twin. Twins generally are considered to have a more "usable" power band due to the shape of the torque delivery curve.

The 1150R has a ton of engine braking, (more than most twins of similar displacement) AND a fair amount of drive line lash, which can be very disruptive when shifting at lean angle, but like with any bike, CAN be ridden smooth as silk with practice.


Now, I COMPLETELY agree with what you said about learning from schools and not someone just because they have ridden for 20 years. You are spot on with that.

Bones

[darthrider]

Now, I COMPLETELY agree with what you said about learning from schools and not someone just because they have ridden for 20 years. You are spot on with that.

I once had a really smart boss who used to say: There is a huge difference between having 20 years' experience and 1 years' experience 20 times!
The Internet seems to have more of the latter than the former...

[dragonmojo]

Pat is probably familiar with these roads.

I went for a ride this morning, which took me to Auburn, CA and then through the canyons to Cool. Grabbed Salmon Falls Road toward El Dorado Hills. Some nice curves... I had my Rock up to between 60 and 80mph. Been riding for over a quarter century now, so I did not think too much about my technique. Looking back at today's ride (130 miles' worth): I would pick up speed, anticipate the corner and scrub said speed with the brakes, downshift to an appropriate gear (helps being familiar with the upcoming corners) and for just a brief moment during turn-in I don't do much. Except turn in (and maybe a little throttle). Throttle comes on as soon as possible, and smoothly. The revs are running high in the same gear, but this is an advantage, keeping the Rock under control. It'll take the revs. Upshift when the situation warrants it, where you have enough of a straight (and speed), and the revs are really getting too high.

[mcrides]

Bruno,
I do not mean to argue, but in the interest of correct information being disseminated:

Your statement "the more you lean the more grip your tires are generating to keep the lean" is just plain wrong.

Aww man. If you're going to quote me, you need to quote me accurately.
You ommitted a crucial word.
Here is what I wrote:

So the more leaned you are < and > the more grip your tires are generating to keep the lean, the less you have available for braking or accelerating. One word makes a lot of difference in the meaning of a sentence.

It's clear that if you are leaned but at low speed so that tires are using very little grip to maintain lean, you have more grip to accelerate with. It's in keeping with that continuum example. It's not rocket science.

Also, "a twin can provide more gross input that a multi...."
The 1150R has a ton of engine braking, (more than most twins of similar displacement) AND a fair amount of drive line lash, which can be very disruptive when shifting at lean angle

That's part of what I was referring to.


Best,

[NZPOM]

Israel,

Having participated in my first track training day recently, I think I can summarise the general feedback from the forum.

One of the exercises our trainers (Class 1 UK m/c cops) had us doing was a short loop where we had to separate the braking, down-shifting and turning functions. The result being that we entered the corners at the right speed, in the right gear, nice and smooth.

OK, so this exercise didn't quite work as they intended - these big BMWs with huge engine breaking needed more speed to properly separate these functions. But we all wobbled around, artificially up-shifting so that we could then down-shift before the corners.

Even after 23years of riding and 40,000+ kms on my R, I still found that learning from experts a worthwhile experience.

Brake, Gear, Turn - simple.

Martyn

[Boxerboy]

The responses here are variable, probably matching skill levels and experience.

Common roads verses race tracks present very different circumstances though I guess a corner is a corner isn't it?

I'd of thought a racer with years of good experience doesn't represent most of us.

Is going thru a corner the fastest the objective or is it going thru a corner fast and smooth and safe?

Following someone who is braking mid corner, changing lines, inadvertantly straying to the other lane is downright scary sometimes, out of concern for their safety only. It doesn't encourage confidence no matter how much experience they have. You'd need to know them well to be happy with that on road riding behaviour.

Knowing the characteristics of your bike, knowing personal limitations and not surpassing them will provide more fun imho. Many riders are way behind the capabilities of modern bikes. Some here will be able to match the capabilities of their bike. Many won't.

It seems to me Israel is trying to understand his new bikes characteristics and has sensibly asked a very good question. I hope he has the answer he needs.

[machew01]

Dallara, you're a sensitive man, so let me say that you shouldn't feel badly. I too am guilty of shifting up or down and changing that other stuff mid-corner. Although, I get really angry with myself if I cannot do it smoothly.

mac

[dragonmojo]

Do they train you on tracks going clockwise down south of the equator? Up here north of the 0 parallel it is easier going counter-clockwise!