NewsFlash: R1200R

Post by **Boxer** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:45 am

Just saw this posted on the SportTouring board:

Just got back from my dealer and he's telling me that the R1200R (a naked R1200S) will be available alongside the 1200S when it hits US dealers in the May/June timeframe. Has anyone seen any detailed info on the R yet?

I'm wringing my hands!

Post by **Deans BMW** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:08 am

I'll see if I can find out today.

collyers · Post by **collyers** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:52 pm

sounds like just guesswork, here's why:

we've been seeing spy photos for MONTHS now of the R1200S...

any of the R1200R?

we've seen the PRODUCTION model pics from BMW on the www for over a month...

any of the R1200R?

To release these two to USA showrooms at the same time would be very incongruous to the way BMW works, in mule-testing/beta-testing/ and finally SHOWING the bikes to the public. The R1200S is out there already - the R1200R is vapor ware - still.

And, unless Dean-O can confirm it, it's all wishful thinking (or sales-talk).

We'll see spy photos probably in March. We'll see the bikes in the fall.
Just MY edumicated guesses.

When Dean-O speaks......

Post by **Biff's R** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:59 pm

I could see the R1200R moving more rapidly from "design" to production than most of the other bike. It will probably share an engine with one of the other R bikes, and would not require as much real world testing as the others in the BMW line. Just a guess.

I am waiting for Dean's reply...

solitario11 · Post by **solitario11** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:00 pm

I be at the NY show on the 1/21/06 so maybe they have it there to see! If so I can take tons of pics!

bakernks · Post by **bakernks** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:45 pm

My money lies on BMW using the GS as the platform for a new R1200R. They've done it before. Word has it the F800 ain't such a done deal over on this side of the water. Lots of money to buy that sweet Rotax powerplant puts it on the unmarketable table pricewise. If the 800 doesn't make the boat, which bike is the regular BMW? ST- too sporty. GS is, well, GS has it's own kind that won't buy anything else and sells well, but might be too strange for many. Even with mag wheels. RT and S too far end of the spectrum for sure. So? R1200R comes out using the GS frame, shorter legs, all new tank and screen, done. Wait and see if I'm not right.

Post by **MikeCam** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:00 am

Bakernks, Been seeing you over on the ADV site. Thanks for popping back over. Wise words and based on good history, to be sure.

A year ago, I felt that BMW had achieved with the R12GS the right crossover for both adventure and roadster users. Your take is more logical.

I do have a hesitation to think the R12S would become the naked platform, but they did that with the K-S to K-R. So.......?

Didn't realize the F800 costs were challenging the U.S. market niche. Hmmm.

collyers · Post by **collyers** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:55 am

Bakernks has probably hit it closest to the mark - the R will be an entry-level Boxxer in stature as much as as anything else, so styling is going to have to be conservative (compared to the GS/ST), but maybe they'll do an HP/Streetfighter (a la Tuono/SuperDuke/HyperMotard) version to satisfy the NON-entry riders. Still, we won't see any spy shots until at LEAST March. If we see the 800s in the US at all, it'll be the S first.

bakernks · Post by **bakernks** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:34 pm

It came to me looking at the minimal painted parts on the R1200GS. They change colors of that bike with just 2 or 3 small painted parts. Light bulb went on. Take a GS, shorten the suspension abit, very easy. Make a fuel tank different, smooth, curvy. Not very much expense there. Replace the GS front fender, you have an R1200R without very much expense at all. GS sales carries the driveline tooling expenses already. You can then market a R1200R around the same price the R1150R is already at, about $11,000.
Thanks for the thumbs up.

collyers · Post by **collyers** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:24 am

That's what you get for thinking.

I hope they do a Sport version, or "LW" (lightweight) version as they have in the past with some of the 3 series cars. This bike with 100+/- HP and around 450lbs would actually be a decent handful. At 525lbs dry, it's pretty tame - not boring, but not very tossable. Weight is the enemy, and HP is too expensive to burden with so many Kgs.

Post by **Pat** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:14 am

How hard would it be for BMW to fit all the Rock & Roadster body parts they have laying around, to a 1200 Hexhead??? Frankly, I don't want the current cosmetics of the Roadster to change..... it's timeless the way it is. But give us a lighter package, with a smoother running powerplant, the new maintenance-free final drive, and ten more horsepower, (and a lower/narrower saddle)...... well, I'd be willing to buy another one RIGHT NOW! But BMW is gonna make me wait, raise their prices, and lose me.

I can't imagine how BMW plans to market a new 800cc belt driven bike producing the same power as the current 1150's..... for $14,000 usd!?!?!?! Think about it, it's not scheduled for release in the the United States until 2007, and I'll bet they're gonna hype it, make it pretty, AND elevate BMW motorcycles' level of eliteness between now and then...... Sure, the naked F800S with no add-ons may go for "$12,000.00", but the F800ST with bags is going to price itself waaaaaay outa my league!

All I'm asking for Christmas is,
for BMW to release word that a naked R1200R will not only be lighter with comparable power, but that it will be available ASAP for ten grand. Hey, they gotta get rid of all those Rockster body parts they got laying around, and I'm here to help!

Is that too much to ask?

riceburner · Post by **riceburner** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:15 am

bakernks wrote:It came to me looking at the minimal painted parts on the R1200GS. They change colors of that bike with just 2 or 3 small painted parts. Light bulb went on. Take a GS, shorten the suspension abit, very easy. Make a fuel tank different, smooth, curvy. Not very much expense there. Replace the GS front fender, you have an R1200R without very much expense at all. GS sales carries the driveline tooling expenses already. You can then market a R1200R around the same price the R1150R is already at, about $11,000.
Thanks for the thumbs up.

Don't forget the tail - the GS tail unit is very specific and they'd use a different tail (maybe from the ST or RT).

To be honest I think the ST is a better base. No need to alter the suspension, just a slightly different tank (or even the same one - not sure if it's part of the front screen or not), no front bodywork, and a small piece of framework for the headlight, and some slightly different bars - either extended clip on (swan-necks might look nice actually) or a new yoke and regular bars - job done.

Remember the 1150R uses the same forks as the 1150RT (I think).

riceburner · Post by **riceburner** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:19 am

Pat wrote:How hard would it be for BMW to fit all the Rock & Roadster body parts they have laying around, to a 1200 Hexhead??? Frankly, I don't want the current cosmetics of the Roadster to change..... it's timeless the way it is. But give us a lighter package, with a smoother running powerplant, the new maintenance-free final drive, and ten more horsepower, (and a lower/narrower saddle)...... well, I'd be willing to buy another one RIGHT NOW! But BMW is gonna make me wait, raise their prices, and lose me.

I can't imagine how BMW plans to market a new 800cc belt driven bike producing the same power as the current 1150's..... for $14,000 usd!?!?!?! Think about it, it's not scheduled for release in the the United States until 2007, and I'll bet they're gonna hype it, make it pretty, AND elevate BMW motorcycles' level of eliteness between now and then...... Sure, the naked F800S with no add-ons may go for "$12,000.00", but the F800ST with bags is going to price itself waaaaaay outa my league!

All I'm asking for Christmas is,
for BMW to release word that a naked R1200R will not only be lighter with comparable power, but that it will be available ASAP for ten grand. Hey, they gotta get rid of all those Rockster body parts they got laying around, and I'm here to help!

Is that too much to ask?

Quite a lot I suspect. I believe I'm right in saying that the 1150 and 1200 sub-frames are quite different, so a Rockster tank wouldn't fit on (for example).

Also they've got the "corporate identity" to consider - for example the bug-eyed 1150 Rockster/GS lights have been superceded by by "Bender" lights of the 1200GS/K1200R - they'll want to keep details like that the same over the 1200 range so the 1150 stock won't be usable.

To be honest Pat - BMW will charge whatever they believe the market will take, and if they price you out, then you're not BMW's market....

(if you can see what I'm saying).

Post by **Pat** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:40 pm

Alas, for I doubt I will be of the future elite....
and I actually like the Bender look!

(Guess I belong to the Ninja 650 middle-class then; not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Post by **Boxer** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:08 pm

they'll want to keep details like that the same over the 1200 range

How do you figure? They didn't do it with the 1150.

This is about all that will be the same. I think!
http://www.micapeak.com/HMarc/R1200GS/i ... frame2.jpg

Post by **JCsman** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:37 pm

Boxer wrote:This is about all that will be the same. I think!

Nice start though.

=============================
Questions/speculation/questions - help me out here

I've read the speculation about whether the R1200R would be produced at all for some time. I could never believe BMW would/could drop the "entry level" boxer. The newest hexheads are mighty expensive. And, absent the experience I've had with my R1150R, I doubt if I'd have even considered bikes in the price range of the new R's.

But the boxer engine configuration is so iconic to the brand it would ultimately harm the RT/GS/S/ST sales if there was not a reasonable way into the boxer world. While the 650 (and new 800's) are pretty nifty bikes, they just didn't stir the desire for a BMW like the boxer always has for me. Nor would they, necessarily make for brand loyalty when "moving up". There's just too much difference like source of engines, configuration, shaft drive, suspension bits, etc.

A real entry level boxer might have appeal. But BMW doesn't seem to want that. Plus it would overlap even more with the new parallel twins. I sure don't see another try at a "cheaper" R1150R (like the R850R). Ducati seems to be able to pull it off with their 620cc versions of the Monster and Multistrada. But the R850R was only minimally less expensive and did not sell well (at least here in the US). Unless they went non-shaft, conventional forks it's hard to see a cheap enough boxer with enough performance to sell.

I understand the argument posted above that some costs of a new R1200R are already absorbed if they use the GS (or ST) as a beginning point. But, really, how much discount can there be? After all, year two or three of the GS could have a large price cut for the same reason. And I'm not holding my breath. So, I can't see just changing a few pieces of body work difference from the R1200ST, say, to create the R1200R. The price would seem to drop it out of the running (or perhaps, like Pat, I've been passed by

BMW price wise).

So BMW must bring out the R1200R, right? And must hold the price down, right?

Now, how in the world do they do that? Sell the new R1200R as a "loss leader"? Cut features (of course they'll advertise a stripper version for a price, but - other than non-ABS, what would they cut that would really make a difference)?

I'm so confused! [And the voices in my head

just seem to make it worse.]

QSIMDO · Post by **QSIMDO** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:16 pm

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/news.html

Post by **MattPie** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:10 pm

I was thinking about this last night while reading about the new Ducati sportclassic bikes, and maybe we should have a write-in campaign to BMW: a retro-styled R1200R. Maybe something like a 1975-ish R90/S, or go even older. How about it?

Post by **DJ Downunder** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:59 pm

I thought this Ducati concept looked interesting...are you watching..BMW designers..

...something like this is ok with me..

DJ

Post by **Boxer** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:30 pm

It's too late to enfluence any designers. Whatever it comes out to be, its certainly already designed and in the works somewhere.

With the popularity of the R850R (I can't find a used one anywhere) it's not completely out of the question to rebuild the R850R as a lighter, more HP, Roadster that could be a faster and quicker bike than our 1150 hogs and yet still be withing the price point of a beginning Beemer enthusiast.

Anyway, its fun to guess. It won't be long.

BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

NewsFlash: R1200R

NewsFlash: R1200R

R1200R std & "HP" editions

I will on the NY show so

Hey

Thinking out loud

Complete Speculation