Disaster!!!! (I think)

[johnnyjs1]

Johnny,

Has your problem been diagnosed by a mechanic yet?
Do you yet know for sure what the problem is?


mac

I called Mathias, talked to one of the service guys. I described to him what had happened, and how the bike was behaving. and he said he was 99% sure it was the clutch splines. I am planning on taking it to get checked out this afternoon by a friend of mine i used to work with, just to see what he has to say about it. He's a genious when it comes to bikes. I figure if he can figure it out, maybe we can do the breakdown and save some $$ on labor. I can't get into Mathias till the 25th anyways, so having him look at it cant do any harm. I'm gonna call BMW Motorcycle of Cleveland, describe the problem without saying anything about the splines and seeing what they say about it. I figure if they say its the splines from my description, thats gotta be it right?

[OU812]

F ing bitch!

[challey]

Johnny --

Really sorry to hear about your bad luck - or is it bad engineering on BMW's part? And sorry that this rules you out for the HM ride next week.

I ran across this site for replacement splines (if that is indeed what you need). http://www.sunshinecoast.ca/bmw/InputShaft.pdf
Don't know anything about them other than what's posted on their site. Their parts are not cheap either but if the quality is there, this may be a better value for money than the BMW part. Perhaps there's someone else on the board with experience with them who can comment.

Charlie

[OU812]

http://www.sunshinecoast.ca/bmw/InputShaft.pdf These guys have a great idea!
My new to me R1100RT makes a knocking noise (not loud and I can feel it) when I have the clutch engaged. I wonder what is going on with that. Rode it 1k miles and no change in it but now I am worried.

[MikeCam]

Charlie,

The Canadian solution is promising if the input shaft splines are the failed part. If the clutch hub splines are the failed part, or worse, if the alignment is the root cause, then replacing the one part might not be optimum.

[johnnyjs1]

Just got off the phone with BMW Motorcycles of Cleveland. Talked to the service manager, described the problem, he said sounds like either the clutch splines or the transmission is toast. Also told me that they have two bikes sitting there with the same problem waiting to get fixed. Unfrikken believable!! 2 shops, 6 bikes with this problem

[MikeCam]

Johnny,

6 bikes with transmission problems -- even the service guys didn't say input shaft splines or clutch hub splines. Wait and see.

Frankly -- I know all the mechanics and service techs at three different BMW dealers -- I would never expect a telephone diagnosis. Users (like us) rarely describe things accurately and the guy on the other end rarely hears accurately. Until they see the bike and exercise the troubleshooting procedures, nobody knows anything. And, if it turns out that your bike and the other 6 all suffered input shaft spline failure and/or clutch hub spline failure, then all I can say is Ohio riders are cursed!!!! (But what I'd really ask is to see if you can get the damaged parts to Al or Lobo.)

[johnnyjs1]

Yeah...gonna take it there today. I will definately ask them for the failed parts back. So whats worse...the clutch spline or transmission?

[MikeCam]

Well, if one is clearly toast, it is likely both will need replaced anyway. Teardown and access is the same. If it's a clutch hub, that requires a bit of additional effort in the clutch housing, if it's the transmission input shaft, then more effort at that end. Probably a wash. Thing is, once you get to that level, the bearings and shims and springs and clutch plate and control arms and, of course, the whatchamacallit might all bear replacing. Really depends on what kind of failure it was, what peripheral damage occurred, and what your mechanic's experience tells him is a better solution. I've heard this type of repair go from $1250 to $2600. About half is labor and half is parts. No charge for the knowledge, skill, and ability of your particular mechanic.

[ColumbiaBMW]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I called Gateway BMW in St. Louis, and talked to their service department, the mechanic I spoke with said he has not had ONE bike in with clutch spline failure, the only problem he has seen on a regular basis with our model is final drive oil leakage. So it doesn't appear to be as widespread here in Missouri as it is in Ohio. I'm going to call Engle Motors in KC later, see what they say, and I will let everyone know what they think.

[johnnyjs1]

Maybe Ohio IS cursed!!!

[johnnyjs1]

Well, I sent an email to BMW Motorrad USA and got this in return:

Thank you for contacting BMW Motorrad USA regarding your 2004 BMW R 1150 R Rockster. We are sorry to learn you are in need of repairs on your motorcycle. Any request for assistance beyond the warranty period of your motorcycle would be considered on a case-by-case basis. Consideration will be taken at the time of the repairs by discussing your concerns with the service manager at your servicing BMW Retailer. The service manager would contact their internal BMW Market Team Representative. The request for assistance would be reviewed by this representative, and the service manager would notify you of the consultant's decision. Any and all determinations will be final. If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117. Our office hours are Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Regards,
Casey Roach
BMW Motorrad USA

So, I figure I'll print out their response and take it with me to the dealer when I drop my bike off. nothing ventured, nothing gained. Worth a shot I guess

[ColumbiaBMW]

Ok, I just got off the phone with Engle Motors in KC, they were extremely helpful. I asked if I should worry about clutch spline failure as my transmission has been making a knocking noise at idle sometimes, and John said a good way to find out if you are having sline issues is to go 60 mph, pull in the clutch and shift through ALL the gears, down to first and back up to sixth (without letting out the clutch of course). If, while going 60, the transmission shifts through all the gears and back up, then you don't have anything to worry about. He said he knows it will feel very clunky, but it will let you know if you have any problems. So then I asked how many spline failures he has seen on this model, and he also said NONE. Today I have called two different BMW dealers in Missouri, and both said they haven't had any bikes in with this failure, ever. So Johnny, I am very sorry about your bike, it is very upsetting, but the good news is that maybe this isn't as widespread a problem as originally thought. Good luck to you though, hopefully BMW will help pick up the tab.

[MattPie]

BMW Service Note FU123:
Dealers shall deny any reports of clutch spline failures if someone asks, even if they have fixed bikes for the failure already.


Wouldn't surprise me in the least. It's not like they're legally required to tell the truth to someone over the phone.

[ColumbiaBMW]

BMW Service Note FU123:
Dealers shall deny any reports of clutch spline failures if someone asks, even if they have fixed bikes for the failure already.

I don't believe that this could or would happen for two reasons:

1) If a memo such as that existed, it would be very easy for a disguntled employee to release that information, and that would be catastrophic for BMW. Also, many BMW service technicians are friends of serious BMW riders, somewhere someone who worked for BMW would tell a friend about this "conspiracy" to cover up clutch splines, and it would be leaked onto the internet.

2) How could lying about it, or trying to cover it up, possibly benefit the service technicians. They WANT bikes to come in and get repairs because that is how they make money, the guy I talked to was very honest, offered me advice on how to diagnose the problem myself, and said he really didn't think it was anything, but that he would be more than happy to look at it for me. If he was dishonest he would have told me that I have a very serious problem, and it will cost a lot of $$$$ to fix it.

[Hottech]

I only have 7,500 miles on my 2004 R1150R and I was wondering if I should purchase the extended warranty for 3yrs at $1,600 dollars. If I get the dreaded spline failure it looks as if it would cost me the same amount without the warranty. I was not intending on purchasing it because I thought the 2004 models did not have that problem.

[towerworker]

I think I'll trade my R in for a loud, shakin' oil leakin HD.

No offense HD!

[challey]

If/when my splines go south, I'll be parting out the R and getting an SV650 instead!

I'd bet can buy a used Suzuki in nice shape for about the same as it would cost to get a new clutch hub and transmission input shaft - anything I got parting out the R will go toward accessories.

Charlie

[MikeCam]

Not a bad idea.

[frbank6]

I've already come up with my list of replacements, too:
Suzuki 1250 Bandit ABS
Kawasaki Concours 14 ABS
Honda Interceptor ABS
Triumph Sprint ABS

I had hoped to get a GS or RT some day, but if I'm put through this...not a chance!