BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

I am only 37 so I haven't started punishing myself with fixing old Italian designs, I am still on the Germans . I did check the bike out (LeMans) and it is a very simple machine (I like them simple). But I did notice you have 97 VFR. That is on my "will have" list. I am still a sucker for V4's. My Sabre is still in the running as my favorite bike, however BMW is gaining some ground, ever since I got it to run right.
While I have your ear I wanted to hear your opinion on the clutch splines issue, I am sure you are familiar, since with these bikes it is (surging, input splines, stick coils) as far as complaints go.
Without going into it too deep do you think that that there is any chance that longer input shaft or modified clutch plate (to fit the input shaft fully) can cause any negative effects?. Lets assume for a moment that doesn't do any good because of blah blah. But IMHO doing this mod can not be a bad thing.
Your opinion.

But at this point we are getting of the subject of the thread so you can PM me if you want to.
Esmir

I

kirby wrote:..... 160K miles on my rock (bought new '04).
mike

poo - I got some riding to do!!

vwdoctor wrote:I am only 37 so I haven't started punishing myself with fixing old Italian designs, I am still on the Germans . I did check the bike out (LeMans) and it is a very simple machine (I like them simple). But I did notice you have 97 VFR. That is on my "will have" list. I am still a sucker for V4's. My Sabre is still in the running as my favorite bike, however BMW is gaining some ground, ever since I got it to run right.
While I have your ear I wanted to hear your opinion on the clutch splines issue, I am sure you are familiar, since with these bikes it is (surging, input splines, stick coils) as far as complaints go.
Without going into it too deep do you think that that there is any chance that longer input shaft or modified clutch plate (to fit the input shaft fully) can cause any negative effects?. Lets assume for a moment that doesn't do any good because of blah blah. But IMHO doing this mod can not be a bad thing.
Your opinion.

But at this point we are getting of the subject of the thread so you can PM me if you want to.
Esmir

That's a good subject and worth while.

When I pulled the trans on my rock it had about 110K miles. The reason was I had a weird whine coming from the area of the engine /trans mate and I was planning a long trip so...you get the idea.
Anyway the splines looked brand new and not much sign of grease although I could see some color indicating that it had came from the factory with grease. I had bought a new clutch plate also just in case but when I measured (micrometer) it was .300" and the new one was .310" so I did not replace.
The whine turned out to be the front bearing but it was not making metal, I took the trans down and checked everything and all was fine so replaced the front bearing, flushed and cleaned everything and all was well.

I have friends in Berlin some of which know people that work in the BMW factory and their theory on the spline ware is an alignment problem from the factory. If the surfaces are not all true (and I mean very close to spec) you have a good chance of abnormal ware.

Of course this is also tied to how the machine is operated, as in if you have a GS and do allot of adventure stuff (including lotsa water crossings) or you like to load you roadster like Jed Clampets truck(beverly hillbillies TV show to all you younguns) along with momma and hit the road it will hasten things a bit.

Their general opinion(guys in Germany) is that if your machine has no problems with the rear bearings (preload critical, typical German over engineering) or the splines do not ware unusually for the first 30K/35/K miles, your probably good for a bunch of care free miles.

Having said all that:

The longer input shaft...can't hurt but????If I had to replace I would do it. I wouldn't mess with spec. clearence!
Theory is the longer shaft reduces spline load!!! Good grief how much load can 80 HP produce..the shaft is not much bigger than some of the small block powered hot rods I have had with 400+ hp. pulling a 3000 lb car!!
After market clutch plate...here again can't hurt?
Carefully reassembly of the rear taking care to get the pre-load correct..essential.

Happy riding!!!!

mike

BTW I have had 4 VFR's. The '97 was the last of the real sporty ones..did not like the '98 "flexy" frame or electronic carbs or linked brakes, although its the less invasive linked system I have ever tried. Love the gear driven cam whine!!!

I think we are on the same page regarding this issue. My theory is, and I have a vested interest since I did notice some clutch spline wear (nothing on the input shaft side) at 24k, is that shaft not engaging fully makes those tolerances even more critical, to the point that what should be OK is no longer. In another words if the shaft had full engagement it would not allow the process to start and could allow greater "spread" on the alignment tolerances. I am currently testing modified clutch hub in my bike (the same one that had some wear). I ordered new one and will modify that one also. I will pull the transmission after 1k miles to check and replace. In the meantime I am beating the hell out of it. (gotta test it out)
But everything else aside, if you have a hub that goes on the splines that hub should engage the splines 100% of the depth. I think there is no point in arguing this fact.
One of my repair mantras is to fix what is obviously wrong regardless of the complaint first, and in this case partial engagement is obviously wrong.

EDIT: I am putting a new rear tire on it today so I took the opportunity to delete rear muffler. I couldnt remove the wheel with it on, almost, but couldnt do it.
I will just go with the simple chrome tip. Less weight, easier to work on, nicer sound. I know, I am messing with German perfection again.

"Damn the torpedoes..full speed ahead"!

mike :-)

So - I did this to my 04 GS last night. (had to as I lost a coil and am facing a salvage rebuild inspection tomorrow...)

worked like a charm. can't test under load as we have a foot of snow here in South Jersey this morning... sounds good and makes sense.

Thanks VWDoc for this. heard of it but was not sure.

Glad it worked out for you. Now you only have to see how is your clutch spline doing and you are good to go.

I just put another 60 miles on it today, with luggage. Mix riding but mostly 50mph and up. Couple of stops. Max speed 110mph for about 5 minutes. Held it at the 5th gear at 6500 rpm for about a minute before shifting to 6th. If there is any issue with timing of the spark I don't see it or feel it. I am trying very hard to break this bike, and the more I ride it more I like it. There is a slight surge at about 3200 rpm but you have to know where to look to find it. Other than that I am falling for this bike.Bikes are like dogs, you take care of them treat them nicely but every once in a while you have to show them who owns who.

I have a question for you ignition guru's. I've been told that the bottom plugs on a dual spark (mine is an '04 btw) fire only below 2500 rpm. Is that true? When I pull the bottom plugs for inspection they generally are pretty black, not at all how the primary plugs look---grayish and clean.
That tends to make me think that they actually don't fire all the time.

I asked my dealer's service manager and he (gasp!) didn't know.

My original stick coils failed at around 30K. I've got 50K on it now and running great.

The bottom plugs fire ALL the time!

The engine will run with ONLY the bottom plugs but not very good!

Makes no sense to have dead spark plugs in a firing (producing combustion) cylinder.

mike

It is correct. Bottom spark plugs fire all the time (venture to guess at the same time as the primary).
They are always looking like they are fouled, I guess because of the "unfavorable" location in the combustion chamber.

Thanks guys--that makes more sense than what I had been told.

Wayne