BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Well....what can I say....the play time is over and the bike has been towed to the dealer.....here is what hapened:
4/1/08....yes....fools day...

7pm - I am happily on my way to play some tennis at the local club....local is about 20 Mi away:-)

9:30pm - Done with tennis...Got to the bike.....turn the key....and here it is...a warning triangle that does not go away and the EWS message displayed on the computer.

9:30-10pm - praying that if I just give it a little rest the bike will start

10:00pm - calling the BMW road side assistance which parks me with some music for about 10 minutes

10:10pm - Some guy comes on line takes my VIN # and says that he will put me on hold and promptly hangs up on me

10:15pm - my cell phone is dying.....I am calling the road side assistance again and put promptly on hold for about 20 minutes

10:30pm - the same guy comes on the phone....makes me think that he was the only one answering the phones there....appologises....takes the rest of my info and my phone # just in case we get disconnected....and says that he will call back ones he finds a tow truck

10:50pm - the guy calls back to say that the closest tow company that can tow bikes is in San Francisco....about 40Mi away and they can be there in 1 hour....provided that I agree to pay them $100....I argue with him that this should be a free service and he says that I can submit a claim....ok....I just want my bike towed so I agree....BTW...they can only tow to the nearest dealer....which turned out to be Diablo Kawasaki and BMW in Walnut Creek, CA..getting home from there is my problem...ok....no problem..

11:00 - 11:45pm - I call my kid to see if he can find out in the manual what EWS is....he does.....and its the Immobilizer system that supposed to prevent theft (chip in the key thing)....welll it does it very well.....telling the original key and the owner to takes a hike....at this point I call my wife to bring all spare keys (2 keys...one plastic and one extra regular the the dealer made for me)....I'll meet her at the dealer so she can give me a ride home

11:45pm - the flat bed tow track arrives.....we load the bike and he starts to strap it....I had to yell at him a few times because he started to crank the straps as hard as he could with complete disregard that he was starting to bend things....luckly I was watching this and put the stop to it just in time and straped the bike myself....

12:30am - arrive at the dealer....unload the bike....wife arrives....I get the spare keys and pray for it to start .....no such luck.....same message.....EWS

12:35 am - go home....get some rest

The Next day....

9am - arrive at the dealer.....they are not very happy to see me and the mechanic's are fighting with the manager in front of the customers

9:15am - the manager at the dealer takes my info and says it will be at least a week ....I asked him if it will be a week for him to just look at the bike and he says yes ....ok....I have no choice and go home with the tail between my legs

Today......

10am - since I have not heard from them I decided to give them a call.....what they said has just dumbfounded me....he was telling me that they do not know what the problem is....maybe it's an antenna ring that surrounds the ignition....maybe it's something else.......and they have ordered the part which should be there by the end of NEXT week but they do not know if it will fix the problem..... ......if it does not fix it it may be another 2 weeks to a MONTH

Well......at this point I have a few questions:
1. Are the BMW's reliable bikes?
2. Are the dealers just try to wash you off their hands
3. Is 2 weeks to diagnose and fix the problem a typical fixing time for bikes (I have owned many cars....and no matter what problem they develop they were fixed on the same day.....unless we had to wait for a part...and then it was fixed on the day the part arrived)

Right now I have a brand new 08 BMW R1200R with 1100Mi that I cannot use.......leaves me with a bitter taste and a question if I should have bought something else.

Sorry for the long write up........just had to vent....

Sorry to hear about your troubles, I have had very good experiences w/bmw's (owned 4 so far since 85) I've never been left on the road .you'll see lots of rant n raves on the web and there is a problem w/some of the ews antenae from what I've seen on various forums !!! That said a good dealer is worth his or her weight in platinum !!! whatever the product is ...They don't build em & everybody has problems , everybody!!!! I made a living for 30yrs fixing brand new cars...If ya don't think the people are competent @ dealer A then get your scoot to a more competent one ..I know ya shouldn't have to put up w/this on a $xxxxx vehicle but sometimes "stuff occures" I hope once you're over this you'll have many uneventfull miles

I would have to agree with mechanic savant. BMW's are extremely reliable machines. I have only owned two in 5 years but have never been stranded (well maybe once but it was my fault--broke a fuel line QD)

My current BMW is an 04 so it does not have the key security feature that yours has. Pretty sophisticated system I'm sure with much that can go wrong. Probably just a fluke on a brand new machine. I feel certain once you get past this issue you will have many trouble free miles.

wayne
04r

How many others are experiencing the same problem?
I will be picking up my new 2007, built in January of 07, next week.
I hope I don't have this problem far from home....

Brother, I feel your pain.. (that's what you get for playing tennis.. - JUST KIDDING!)

I sincerely hope what you're experiencing is an isolated case - I know that it's the first time I've read anything even remotely close to what you went through.

I also hate it that your stealer.. er, dealer isn't supporting you. Once you get it fixed - and I'm sure you will - find a new dealer to do your work.

In the meantime keep book on how many days it's been since you hauled it in. I don't know about CA, but NC has some very strong lemon-law buy-back consumer production laws.

I hope you get it fixed - soon. The fact that you're going through what you're going through makes us all look at our R-bikes with a jaundiced eye.

Keep us in the loop.

This is NOT an unknown problem. BMW has a new series of the EWS antenna rings, and the dealer should know this, and be able to overnight it (VOR - vehicle off road) from BMW-NA. Changing it might take an hour for an incompetent wrench.

It seems this happens early, or it doesn't happen at all. It mostly happened to 2007 bikes. There are lots of us with 2007's who got past the "sudden-infant-death" range on the EWS and haven't had any problems at all.

If this happens - wait at least 10 minutes before trying to start the bike again. The EWS system has a time-out function to keep someone with a code-sequencer from being able to try a bunch in a row quickly to defeat it.

And for the inevitable "the old bikes didn't have this.." neither did old cars, but almost every modern car has it now, and it typically is NOT a problem. Deal with it - it's a teething problem, and once fixed shouldn't be a problem again.

(A few people have bought spare EWS antennas and simply carry them on the bike. It's not hard to hot-wire in the spare and get the bike started - it just has to be near the key..)

MJB wrote:How many others are experiencing the same problem?
I will be picking up my new 2007, built in January of 07, next week.
I hope I don't this problem problem far from home....

I have seen what seems to be 1000's of falures on different BMW models but the same system......do a search on google....and go to different BMW forums....maybe we are overreacting....but the problem does exist....

deilenberger wrote:This is NOT an unknown problem. BMW has a new series of the EWS antenna rings, and the dealer should know this, and be able to overnight it (VOR - vehicle off road) from BMW-NA. Changing it might take an hour for an incompetent wrench.

It seems this happens early, or it doesn't happen at all. It mostly happened to 2007 bikes. There are lots of us with 2007's who got past the "sudden-infant-death" range on the EWS and haven't had any problems at all.

If this happens - wait at least 10 minutes before trying to start the bike again. The EWS system has a time-out function to keep someone with a code-sequencer from being able to try a bunch in a row quickly to defeat it.

And for the inevitable "the old bikes didn't have this.." neither did old cars, but almost every modern car has it now, and it typically is NOT a problem. Deal with it - it's a teething problem, and once fixed shouldn't be a problem again.

(A few people have bought spare EWS antennas and simply carry them on the bike. It's not hard to hot-wire in the spare and get the bike started - it just has to be near the key..)

hmmm......i waited 2 minutes....10 minutes......1 hour.....and then the next morning.....same problem accured. Also I think you are wrong by saying that the spare ring can be quickly wired and the problem bypassed......on some BMW's it may be true.....but from what I heard the R12R has a special ring connector....that cannot be removed but with special tools.....some people even say that the screwes have to be drilled out and replaced......anyway.....I would hate to see somebody buy a ring and cary it with them just to find out that it cannot be replaced...or bypassed....and the only way is to got to the stealer.....

BMW service can be variable - I've had a new battery in my 528i in under 39 minutes, and waited 2 hours for a car mechanic for my bike who knew zip about bikes (dispatch error?).

BUT there's zero excuse for the dealer you encountered. Abysmal attitude and ignorance - EWS is well known, or should be - yet this crap seems to be par for the course.

Thank goodness my insruer insists on decent repairers and will ship a bike some distance (at tehir cost) to get a good dealer.

Graf wrote:

MJB wrote:How many others are experiencing the same problem?
I will be picking up my new 2007, built in January of 07, next week.
I hope I don't this problem problem far from home....

I have seen what seems to be 1000's of falures on different BMW models but the same system......do a search on google....and go to different BMW forums....maybe we are overreacting....but the problem does exist....

The "1000s of failures" as best I can track down is less than a dozen, out of how many bikes? It's called the Internet Effect.. a few repeatedly reported failures (same person multiple reports on different forums) x all the people who then cross post on the boards about the one they heard of on another board.

If you can actually track down 12 unique failures I'd be surprised.

I would at least expect a loan bike on a 08, 1000 mile bike until they fixed the problem.

Graf wrote:hmmm......i waited 2 minutes....10 minutes......1 hour.....and then the next morning.....same problem accured. Also I think you are wrong by saying that the spare ring can be quickly wired and the problem bypassed......on some BMW's it may be true.....but from what I heard the R12R has a special ring connector....that cannot be removed but with special tools.....some people even say that the screwes have to be drilled out and replaced......anyway.....I would hate to see somebody buy a ring and cary it with them just to find out that it cannot be replaced...or bypassed....and the only way is to got to the stealer.....

Replacing it is about an hour, maybe a bit more first time. Someone wrote up doing it on one of the boards. You have to remove the headlight (two screws, one plug), then a cover over the connector, then the antenna itself.

The antenna is mounted with screws you have to drill the heads off - that's what takes a bit of time - you apparently may have to remove the top triple-tree to get to those screws. Haven't done it myself, but did see a report on someone who did.

But - to get the bike RUNNING again - all you have to do is plug the new antenna into the connection (remove headlight, remove cover over connector) - put the key near the new one and turn the key on (in the ignition).. then start the bike. The spare antenna can be tie-wrapped to the key, or even removed once the bike is running (since the ECU only reads the key on startup.) That's why people have bought spares to carry with them.

The reason I mentioned waiting 10 minutes.. a few people experienced failures apparently caused by having two keys close to each other (key and spare on the same keyring.. go figure..) that confused the EWS system. In this case - they kept trying every few seconds - and each time they did, restarted the countdown timer for the EWS lockout. When they left the bike for 30 minutes and came back and tried it - it started right up. I didn't think that was your problem, but tossed it in as a potential "got'cha" to be aware of.

I can understand being frustrated with this.. I would be also, but the dealer you're working with (who from what you said isn't primarily a BMW dealer and isn't the dealer you bought the bike from) isn't being as helpful as they could be.

FWIW - I've had the same system on multiple BMW cars for over ummm.. since 1998, and have not experienced any problems with it.

thank you guys for all your responces.......i guess i'll just have to take it as it comes......which is a little hard to do when you spent so much money and in the matter of weeks you cannot ride anymore because of the problem....well......the weather is great here.....back to my GSXR to get my frastrations out ......by the way....GSXR is half the money 10 times the miles and never even 1 glitch.....Suzuki knows how to do it....so why not BMW?

This story is a bummer. I have over 300 K miles on Beemers with the first one bought new in 1971. I have never had one let me down, but the bikes are getting more sophisticated and electronics are in control of them these days so the probability for a problem is greater on these new bikes. In terms of electronics your Suzuki is stoneage compared to the Beemer. Mine have all been professionally maintained by the dealer. I gather that your bike is not at the dealer you bought it from. Why don't you call your own dealer and see if he can help? If that doesn't work, call BMW North America and see what they can do to expedite your repair.

Garf...I would call BMW of North America and politely vent on customer service rep, then ask for the Bay Area District Manager. Dude, share your Pain with BMW The "exercise" your involved with is B.S. from Roadside Assistance to the "We'll get to it in a week".all B'S.

Bill Stevenson wrote:This story is a bummer. I have over 300 K miles on Beemers with the first one bought new in 1971. I have never had one let me down, but the bikes are getting more sophisticated and electronics are in control of them these days so the probability for a problem is greater on these new bikes. In terms of electronics your Suzuki is stoneage compared to the Beemer. Mine have all been professionally maintained by the dealer. I gather that your bike is not at the dealer you bought it from. Why don't you call your own dealer and see if he can help? If that doesn't work, call BMW North America and see what they can do to expedite your repair.

You are right Bill....it's not the same dealer that I bought the bike from......there were 2 problems of getting the bike to that dealer..
1. BMW road site assistance would only tow the bike to the NEAREST dealer....which in my case turned out to be...well you know...
2. The dealer who I have bought the bike from is in the process of relocating to another facility and is closed for the next 3 weeks:-(

P.S. I wouldn't call a GSXR a stone age:-)....it's very advanced 07 model.......and I would say it's advanced in all the right places....and build more for the the track rather then street
BMW on the other hand....is very advanced.....but their advances are geared towards customer (and some for the bike)....but mostly for the customer.....like the damn antenna ring.....oh...and don't forget the 3 ways to know how much fuel you have....and the temp gauge that does not actually tell you the temperature:-)...i am pretty sure there are more....but that's not the point.....the biggest point is that one is running and the other is not....simple...

I am not trying to bash BMW.......these are just my thoughts......I still love the bike.....and unless I am going to the track....R1200R will always be my first choice (if I can start it:-)

parkec wrote:Garf...I would call BMW of North America and politely vent on customer service rep, then ask for the Bay Area District Manager. Dude, share your Pain with BMW The "exercise" your involved with is B.S. from Roadside Assistance to the "We'll get to it in a week".all B'S.

Just did.....they politely listened.....took all of my information and the dealers.....said sorry for the trouble and have a good day.

I did my part.....it's their turn now.....

Treatment from a dealer like that is unacceptable. Anything mechanical can break, but..... like other have said it's not very common with a BMW.
Comparing any GSXR to a BMW is like apples and oranges, and yes the electrical system on any japanese bike compared to the CAN-BUS found on a BMW does make it look stone age, but I'm sure that's hard to appreciate when your in the position your in...
I have over 32,000 (ride it like you stole it) miles on my 1200R with ZERO problems...
I just went through a bad experience at a BMW car dealer and after posting my experience on a leading forum and then calling BMW NA it is being taken care of, including the dealer's GM firing employee's for what happened. BMWNA is cracking down on bad customer service, and dealer's not up to their standards. Hopefully they can help you. Be sure to tell them about posting your experience on forums...
If you care to see the whole thing look here, the power of the internet and BMW NA at it's finest. All 5 drama filled pages, the end is great though...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128087

I had the ring antenna problem, the BMW recovery in the UK worked quite well considering 5.30pm sunday evening in a fairly remote spot. Anyway, it was trailered home and lo and behold it would start.
I booked it in to the dealer and managed to ride it there , it was given a new antenna and has been OK ever since. The dealer said to carry the plastic key with me in case it happened again. I didn't ask for an explanation, I just assumed that the antenna thingy didn't work with the master key.
Another problem was the fuel guage not working which was fixed. Otherwise all has been OK and I love the bike.

Phil

parkec wrote:Garf...I would call BMW of North America and politely vent on customer service rep, then ask for the Bay Area District Manager. Dude, share your Pain with BMW The "exercise" your involved with is B.S. from Roadside Assistance to the "We'll get to it in a week".all B'S.

+1000!

Just read your response. I'd give the dealer a couple weeks, max. Then I'd probably ask for the BMW regional rep, and get in his ear. Those folks are empowered to make things happen. I'd be really gassed about the charge for the tow, also.