Test Ride Feedback - R1200R and R1200GS
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:59 pm
First time on this forum - be gentle with me.
Think I put this in the wrong forum before so I am trying to move it.
I'm an F800ST owner but have had the pleasure yesterday of test riding an R1200R and an R1200GS (2007/2008 models).
Thinking about moving from the F800 and these looked like two very nice (but vastly different) options.
So - what were my first thoughts. I'm going to go on a bit now because I need to talk this through, but I would also like to hear any thoughts about in response from more experienced riders of these bikes. Skip to my one liners at the end if you can't stand my babble.
Before riding either - I thought the GS was possibly a little too "trail bike" for my liking. Been there done that, but it did give the height and overall size I am looking for. The look is a love or hate proposition for many and I like it but it had to have more than the look and ergonomics.
The R1200R is a stunning looking bike but just a little naked. I like the ST bodywork. Not too much but some style and protection. In the past I've had a Yamaha XJ900 and it was very nice (for a Japanese bike). Good balance of bodywork and size.
Anyway, back to the BMW's. Both have the shaft drive and the telelever front end that I love. Both are quirky enough to interest me (some would say ugly). So which one or possibly both would go onto or off my short list.
For those of you in my part of the world, it was north on the old Pacific Hwy from Hornsby (nice curves at 80km/h) to the Brooklyn Bridge and then back on the freeway (110km/h on smooth highway tracks).
Took the R1200R out first. New to boxers (other than my Subaru) an the first thing I noticed was the tank sitting there shuddering with the bike at idle (1200 rpm). Told this was normal for the boxer. Then the "stand up" trick when you twist the throttle. That's a cool trick. I suspect I could have it lift up of the side stand if I gave it a good twist.
Saddle was good but at 6'1" with long legs I was instantly thinking about the high seat. The bars are perfect. A little wider and just the right height for a guy who doesn't like head down, bum up and all the pressure on my hands. The moment I rolled away, it was like silk. The gear changes were amazing. I was a little concerned about the difference going to a dry clutch, but it was amazing. The F800 box is a little "agricultural", so this was a pleasant surprise. Also, the engine and shaft drive combination was a nice change from the 800 twin with belt drive. The gear selection wasn't as critical on this. If I go up too high on the F800 it starts to get a bit of slap back and forth as it loads and unloads. Not a problem but a characteristic of the F range with its Rotax engine and box.
I was instantly struck by how engaged and connected I felt with this R12R. The shudder felt at idle disappeared and the feel up to 80km/h was smooth as a baby's bottom. I think the suspension was set quite hard though. Our roads are a little chopped up in this area and I felt each little bump. No ESA on this one. I was amazed by how light it felt too. This is a big bike and although it seems to have most of its weight down low, once I got moving it seemed no heavier than my ST.
Through the twists up the old road it was like I was at one with this machine. The look of the bike from my viewpoint was much more attractive than I had expected too. The ergonomics of the tank profile and the protection this and the big boxer cylinder heads provide is great. Cornering was perfect. Tight bars (possibly due to the damper) and the telelever gives you so much latitude to brake or back off the throttle in mid corner with almost no shift in the bikes attitude. OK - so I'm sold on this bike as a town and country roads contender.
Then I took a turn onto the freeway and opened it up. The power was measured and quite astonishing. The tone of the twin cylinders was reassuring and appropriate as I went from 40 to 120km/h in what seemed like a couple of seconds. There was little wind but I was now aware of the air pushing against me at 110 km/h. Not terrible, but this was something I wanted to get a feel for. I like short touring runs (300-400km on highways) and I was still to be convinced that a naked was a wise move. This had the little sports screen and it gives some protection (mostly to the instruments) but I was very aware of the wing on my upper arms and the stream coming over the screen hit just about on my neck. Noise wasn't too bad. I use a bike to bike system and I could still talk but had to speak louder and slower. My thoughts turned to the high windshield and the possible downside of the higher seat I had been hoping for when I set off. Vibration at 100/110 km/h was not of great concern but noticeable. The view in the mirrors got a little fuzzy but my hands were not complaining. Possibly because for the first time in ages, I didn't have to keep reminding myself to take the weight off. Legs were also not a problem. My knees were engaged with the tank (possibly because it is a little wider) and that felt nice. What would it be like in the cold or wet? With no bodywork, do you just get frozen and drowned o do the tank, cylinder heads and that little screen give enough protection?
After the quick run up the freeway, it was back onto the 80 then 60 streets before getting back to the dealer.
Nice large side stand too (this one didn't have a centre stand).
Now onto the GS. Nice tall position and the same shudder at idle. Possibly a little less noticeable because the tank didn't wobble quite as much.
Don't like the view from the pilots seat quite as much. Lots of plastic bits and the view into the area (more than an arms reach away) under the instruments was a little messy. The seat felt a little awkward but I didn't give it much thought. As with the R1200R, once you get rolling, the smooth boxer engine comes into its own. One thing I did notice was the gearbox was just as smooth to shift but the overall character of the engine seemed less refined. More like a rough edge to it. Perhaps in keeping with the cross-over style of bike that it is. It just didn't seem to have the same power plant, even though I know it is identical.
So, through the local streets it was fine. Through the twists and turns it was also OK but I didn't feel as connected with it as I did with the R1200R. I was also now very aware of my posture. It was as though I was actually leaning back (so I bent my arms a little more). I was also very aware that my bum was not comfortable on this seat.
More importantly, the bars seemed to have a mind of there own. The stiff but responsive feel on the R1200R was now replaced with a lively set of bars that I remember back to my trail bike days. Not that this caused any issues through the corners but it was noticeable.
Turning onto the freeway it was equally quick to get up to 120 but the buffeting from the wind was very noticeable. The wind itself had picked up a little by now but even so, the shield was moving a little and the noise was higher than on my previous run. Legs were nicely protected by the bodywork but the turbulence seemed to form swirls in the vast region between my chest and the instrument cluster.
Back on the slower roads now, the back edge of my bum below my belt has now gone numb. I stand up on the pegs to take the weight off (not that I'm huge - 90 kg 198 lbs). Now I'm starting to see why so many people say they have purchased aftermarket seats. Strange, because the position is fine but the feel is way off.
This bike does have the ESA and I can see that it would possibly be a nice addition if it's not too pricey. Takes the hard edge of the rough roads.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
OK - so what was the verdict?
- The GS is not for me. I could get past the look, but the ergonomics are not right for my style, size and shape.
- The GS seat is horrible.
- This GS (possibly all) was also not as smooth or refined in it's power delivery. I know it should be, but this one wasn't.
- The R1200R is a stand out machine and it's on the short list.
Niggles and concerns about the R1200R then -
- Is it OK out on the highway for longer runs without any bodywork?
- Is the high screen an improvement?
- Is the high seat an improvement for taller riders?
- Is the shudder and wobbling tank at idle normal?
Any comments and feedback would be greatly appreciated.
OK- that's enough for now. I do want to ask about accessories too, but i'll do that in another post.
Think I put this in the wrong forum before so I am trying to move it.
I'm an F800ST owner but have had the pleasure yesterday of test riding an R1200R and an R1200GS (2007/2008 models).
Thinking about moving from the F800 and these looked like two very nice (but vastly different) options.
So - what were my first thoughts. I'm going to go on a bit now because I need to talk this through, but I would also like to hear any thoughts about in response from more experienced riders of these bikes. Skip to my one liners at the end if you can't stand my babble.
Before riding either - I thought the GS was possibly a little too "trail bike" for my liking. Been there done that, but it did give the height and overall size I am looking for. The look is a love or hate proposition for many and I like it but it had to have more than the look and ergonomics.
The R1200R is a stunning looking bike but just a little naked. I like the ST bodywork. Not too much but some style and protection. In the past I've had a Yamaha XJ900 and it was very nice (for a Japanese bike). Good balance of bodywork and size.
Anyway, back to the BMW's. Both have the shaft drive and the telelever front end that I love. Both are quirky enough to interest me (some would say ugly). So which one or possibly both would go onto or off my short list.
For those of you in my part of the world, it was north on the old Pacific Hwy from Hornsby (nice curves at 80km/h) to the Brooklyn Bridge and then back on the freeway (110km/h on smooth highway tracks).
Took the R1200R out first. New to boxers (other than my Subaru) an the first thing I noticed was the tank sitting there shuddering with the bike at idle (1200 rpm). Told this was normal for the boxer. Then the "stand up" trick when you twist the throttle. That's a cool trick. I suspect I could have it lift up of the side stand if I gave it a good twist.
Saddle was good but at 6'1" with long legs I was instantly thinking about the high seat. The bars are perfect. A little wider and just the right height for a guy who doesn't like head down, bum up and all the pressure on my hands. The moment I rolled away, it was like silk. The gear changes were amazing. I was a little concerned about the difference going to a dry clutch, but it was amazing. The F800 box is a little "agricultural", so this was a pleasant surprise. Also, the engine and shaft drive combination was a nice change from the 800 twin with belt drive. The gear selection wasn't as critical on this. If I go up too high on the F800 it starts to get a bit of slap back and forth as it loads and unloads. Not a problem but a characteristic of the F range with its Rotax engine and box.
I was instantly struck by how engaged and connected I felt with this R12R. The shudder felt at idle disappeared and the feel up to 80km/h was smooth as a baby's bottom. I think the suspension was set quite hard though. Our roads are a little chopped up in this area and I felt each little bump. No ESA on this one. I was amazed by how light it felt too. This is a big bike and although it seems to have most of its weight down low, once I got moving it seemed no heavier than my ST.
Through the twists up the old road it was like I was at one with this machine. The look of the bike from my viewpoint was much more attractive than I had expected too. The ergonomics of the tank profile and the protection this and the big boxer cylinder heads provide is great. Cornering was perfect. Tight bars (possibly due to the damper) and the telelever gives you so much latitude to brake or back off the throttle in mid corner with almost no shift in the bikes attitude. OK - so I'm sold on this bike as a town and country roads contender.
Then I took a turn onto the freeway and opened it up. The power was measured and quite astonishing. The tone of the twin cylinders was reassuring and appropriate as I went from 40 to 120km/h in what seemed like a couple of seconds. There was little wind but I was now aware of the air pushing against me at 110 km/h. Not terrible, but this was something I wanted to get a feel for. I like short touring runs (300-400km on highways) and I was still to be convinced that a naked was a wise move. This had the little sports screen and it gives some protection (mostly to the instruments) but I was very aware of the wing on my upper arms and the stream coming over the screen hit just about on my neck. Noise wasn't too bad. I use a bike to bike system and I could still talk but had to speak louder and slower. My thoughts turned to the high windshield and the possible downside of the higher seat I had been hoping for when I set off. Vibration at 100/110 km/h was not of great concern but noticeable. The view in the mirrors got a little fuzzy but my hands were not complaining. Possibly because for the first time in ages, I didn't have to keep reminding myself to take the weight off. Legs were also not a problem. My knees were engaged with the tank (possibly because it is a little wider) and that felt nice. What would it be like in the cold or wet? With no bodywork, do you just get frozen and drowned o do the tank, cylinder heads and that little screen give enough protection?
After the quick run up the freeway, it was back onto the 80 then 60 streets before getting back to the dealer.
Nice large side stand too (this one didn't have a centre stand).
Now onto the GS. Nice tall position and the same shudder at idle. Possibly a little less noticeable because the tank didn't wobble quite as much.
Don't like the view from the pilots seat quite as much. Lots of plastic bits and the view into the area (more than an arms reach away) under the instruments was a little messy. The seat felt a little awkward but I didn't give it much thought. As with the R1200R, once you get rolling, the smooth boxer engine comes into its own. One thing I did notice was the gearbox was just as smooth to shift but the overall character of the engine seemed less refined. More like a rough edge to it. Perhaps in keeping with the cross-over style of bike that it is. It just didn't seem to have the same power plant, even though I know it is identical.
So, through the local streets it was fine. Through the twists and turns it was also OK but I didn't feel as connected with it as I did with the R1200R. I was also now very aware of my posture. It was as though I was actually leaning back (so I bent my arms a little more). I was also very aware that my bum was not comfortable on this seat.
More importantly, the bars seemed to have a mind of there own. The stiff but responsive feel on the R1200R was now replaced with a lively set of bars that I remember back to my trail bike days. Not that this caused any issues through the corners but it was noticeable.
Turning onto the freeway it was equally quick to get up to 120 but the buffeting from the wind was very noticeable. The wind itself had picked up a little by now but even so, the shield was moving a little and the noise was higher than on my previous run. Legs were nicely protected by the bodywork but the turbulence seemed to form swirls in the vast region between my chest and the instrument cluster.
Back on the slower roads now, the back edge of my bum below my belt has now gone numb. I stand up on the pegs to take the weight off (not that I'm huge - 90 kg 198 lbs). Now I'm starting to see why so many people say they have purchased aftermarket seats. Strange, because the position is fine but the feel is way off.
This bike does have the ESA and I can see that it would possibly be a nice addition if it's not too pricey. Takes the hard edge of the rough roads.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
OK - so what was the verdict?
- The GS is not for me. I could get past the look, but the ergonomics are not right for my style, size and shape.
- The GS seat is horrible.
- This GS (possibly all) was also not as smooth or refined in it's power delivery. I know it should be, but this one wasn't.
- The R1200R is a stand out machine and it's on the short list.
Niggles and concerns about the R1200R then -
- Is it OK out on the highway for longer runs without any bodywork?
- Is the high screen an improvement?
- Is the high seat an improvement for taller riders?
- Is the shudder and wobbling tank at idle normal?
Any comments and feedback would be greatly appreciated.
OK- that's enough for now. I do want to ask about accessories too, but i'll do that in another post.
