BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Well, I was wondering how it would go down and it went worse than expected.

I was cruising along in the left lane of a two lane, 45 mph limit highway. Car to my right starts
drifting over. Instant reaction---quick horn beep. But I can't find the button!

I'm used the the big ole Harley horn button---where is that Beemer horn switch again.

So I'm sliding to the left, plenty of room, trying to THINK of where the horn button is.
Meanwhile the offending car is now really trying to move into my lane.

I finally hit the button. Panic ensues in the car as they realize---Yes, there IS another vehicle
ALREADY IN THAT LANE!

Anyway, I wonder if I should practice hitting the horn button much as I occasionally practice
panic stops and swerving. At least until it comes naturally.

Thoughts? Anyone else have the same experience. Something to think about anyway.

I've given many a driver an angry left turn signal when they cut me off.

I've heard of the horn button referred to as the "beep to turn left button". There's a thread where someone put a much larger horn button on their left grip and it sounds like it worked out for them. Even if you honked at them, the horn is fairly feeble. Stebel has a cure for that.

rockbottom wrote:I've given many a driver an angry left turn signal when they cut me off.

+1
Every time! The controls on this bike are the one thing I truly don't like. Horn, high beam, and the blinker triplet of doom. A well designed user interface should take minimal time to learn.

hjsbmw wrote:

rockbottom wrote:I've given many a driver an angry left turn signal when they cut me off.

+1
Every time! The controls on this bike are the one thing I truly don't like. Horn, high beam, and the blinker triplet of doom. A well designed user interface should take minimal time to learn.

Horn placement aside, I actually like the BMW layout for the most part.

Thing is, though, it's different than pretty much every other bike sold in the US in the past, oh, 20 - 30 years. It's not what I learned on, and I'm still not really comfortable with the horn.

I travel a lot for business, so I sit in a lot of rental cars. But, you know, the turn signals and horn are always in the same places. Always.

Gear shift, cruise control, windshield wiper controls ... all important, and often in different places; but the "biggies" are standardized.

That's because it's a serious safety issue; there are things you do NOT want to have to hunt for.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

rockbottom wrote:I've given many a driver an angry left turn signal when they cut me off.

This! I'm red faced screaming into my helmet. My rage is yellow and it blinks.

I tend to ride with my thumb on the horn button. Might be just my hands, but that's about where it falls. Other BMW's I've experienced the left-blinker-of-fury problem, not so much on this one. Either I've finally gotten used to them after 15 years, or it's a bit better located on these controls.

Mate i had the same problem when a first got the R12R also. As Don said ride with your thumb resting on the button, i did it every now & then, like when you are passing a group of cars etc... In no time at all your thumb will find the horn everytime.

Forget the damn horn! If one of them starts to "take you out" you don't have time to find and blow the freakin' horn button. EVASION! EVASION! EVASION!

Think 'cut and run'.

Oh I was evading all right. On the freakin' shoulder. But it wouldn't have been necessary if
I'd just given a little warning beep. That's what it's for---correcting little traffic miscues
before they get out of hand.

I like the idea of riding the button in traffic. Will try to internalize that a bit.

My concern with my technique was that it happened at all. Was I in the blind spot?
I'm usually pretty aware of that, but maybe I was getting lax. It was well into a long
ride, in the most boring part of the ride, just starting to head home, a little tired
and hungry, blah blah blah.

I got in the habit of resting my thumb on the horn button every time I'm in a situation where someone could potentially annoy me. Even when I'm just riding along-side another car on the highway. Until I'm even with the driver's window, the thumb stays there. It's there a lot. My thumb migrates from hand grip to horn button and back again almost subconciously.
I keep an eye out for for other driver's "tells". The things they do before putting on a blinker or just changing lanes w/o blinker. If I was that driver, would my lane look good? Did the left hand just come off the steering wheel? Head lean to the left to look into the mirror? NOW they have my (nearly) undivided attention and I do what I can to diffuse the situation (plan "A")- usually quickly accelerating until I'm looking him/ her in the eye.

I always assume they don't see me. I also always assume that they won't hear the horn (plan "B"), so evasion (plan "C") goes into effect at the same time as the horn.

...
...

lewellen wrote: Horn placement aside, I actually like the BMW layout for the most part.

Thing is, though, it's different than pretty much every other bike sold in the US in the past, oh, 20 - 30 years. It's not what I learned on, and I'm still not really comfortable with the horn.

I travel a lot for business, so I sit in a lot of rental cars. But, you know, the turn signals and horn are always in the same places. Always.

Gear shift, cruise control, windshield wiper controls ... all important, and often in different places; but the "biggies" are standardized.

That's because it's a serious safety issue; there are things you do NOT want to have to hunt for.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

With the horn I have to hunt, most likely because I need it infrequently. I think I may have gotten used to the high beam switch placement after 10k miles now. It took me about 5k miles to get used to the blinkers.

These are safety issues.

In case of the blinkers I feel that there should be nothing required of the right hand, which already holds the throttle, that needs frequent attention, such as indicating your intentions to turn. It can be learned, but why? Yes, standardization has its place.

D-Rider wrote:My concern with my technique was that it happened at all. Was I in the blind spot?

I've never ridden with you, let alone at the time in question, so I can't really comment on your general level of alertness. That said, my personal experience suggests at least a 50% chance the driver never bothered to look.

As the next post in the chain from yours (AndyRR's) pointed out, drivers often have "tells" that they're going to change lanes ... if they bother to do things like head checks. If they think there's an opening beside them, some drivers will just start to go because they "know" there's nobody in that space. In that case there are no tells. It's very possible that the driver thought there was nobody there. Even if you weren't in the vehicle's blind spot, for instance, you might not have been big enough to flag his peripheral vision... and if there's no head check there's no "tell" for you to pick up.

Just a thought. But it is good 'n' healthy to question what happened and why.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

lewellen wrote:

D-Rider wrote:My concern with my technique was that it happened at all. Was I in the blind spot?

Just a thought. But it is good 'n' healthy to question what happened and why.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

It's also good 'n' healthy to ride with Eilenberger's Law#1: Ride like they're out to kill you. Don't even think about them not seeing you - think they *do* see you and want to kill you. ie - plan your escape. (Source: http://www.eilenberger.net/laws.htm)

Since I started riding this way (about 15 years ago..) I have VERY rarely been surprised by the action of any motorist. About the only surprises I've had are from ones I didn't spot early enough. And in those cases (which have gotten less frequent) - that was usually my fault because I didn't anticipate a potentially deadly motorist COULD have been hiding there.

In this case - I would probably have assumed I was in their blind spot, that they were on the cell phone chatting away and couldn't use a turn-signal if so inclined, and are likely to drift into my lane at any moment without warning.

To protect myself I would have been: (1) Covering the brake - slowing down FAST is usually the best response to this situation, get behind them where you can yell and curse at them.. (2) Covering the horn - since sometimes they can hear it over the cell phone and stereo, but it's actually unlikely, so don't count on it; (3) Ready to go full throttle - if I was past them enough that I could do that and clear them in front. (4) Head for the left shoulder.

I'd prefer to do these in the order presented.

#1 is MOST effective. #2 is unlikely to work - (if they're that brain-dead nothing short of a nuclear explosion on their windshield will wake them up,) and then the startled response may not be what you want. #3 only works if you're at least 1/2 way up on the car - and at that point you are next to the drivers window. In my experience they usually don't pull over when you're next to their window (but there are exceptions naturally...) #4 I try to avoid at any expense - it's the last ditch response. There is usually a tank-tread next to the left shoulder (rumble strip) that can really upset the bike's suspension, and there is usually ugly stuff in the shoulder that can puncture my tire. And lots of NJ roads just don't have a left shoulder - just a concrete or metal barrier next to the left lane marking.

My day to day riding is in a very urban area (NJ - most densely populated state in the US, and almost in the world, we're right behind Japan last I saw..) The density, and natural attitudes of NJ drivers makes this a challenge to ride safely. If that can do something boneheaded - chances are excellent they will (at the same time flipping you off.. ) NJ traffic makes Boston drivers look like saints.. (and those from Boston know what I'm referring to..)

So.. you sorta get used to riding in that environment (mine is compounded in the summer since I live in a beach resort area - and the NYC crowd shows up for the summer, ready to party, and have a good time. Unfortunately, most of them don't actually know how to drive) and learn how to ride as safely as possible.

Anyway - point being - anticipate the dumb move, plan for it, plan YOUR escape and you'll probably be just fine. I *DO* use my horn (some people who ride with me say "a lot..") - but it's there for a reason, and the reason is to alert the BDC (brain-dead-cager) that: (1) I see you; (2) I expect you to do something REALLY dumb; (3) I wish you wouldn't, but I still plan for you doing it.

That all said - riding is still dangerous.. but then so is life.

Now if we could only get reflectors on deer..

D-Rider wrote:Well, I was wondering how it would go down and it went worse than expected.

I was cruising along in the left lane of a two lane, 45 mph limit highway. Car to my right starts
drifting over. Instant reaction---quick horn beep. But I can't find the button!

I'm used the the big ole Harley horn button---where is that Beemer horn switch again.

So I'm sliding to the left, plenty of room, trying to THINK of where the horn button is.
Meanwhile the offending car is now really trying to move into my lane.

I finally hit the button. Panic ensues in the car as they realize---Yes, there IS another vehicle
ALREADY IN THAT LANE!

Anyway, I wonder if I should practice hitting the horn button much as I occasionally practice
panic stops and swerving. At least until it comes naturally.

Thoughts? Anyone else have the same experience. Something to think about anyway.

What are you doing at 45mph only? even if that's the limit.......I'm always a little faster than everybody else, but then again I'm in Los Angeles, where everybody drives like a maniac.

Lates.

The horn button requires an unnatural, non-prehensile motion. All that evolution for naught.

vroomr wrote:The horn button requires an unnatural, non-prehensile motion. All that evolution for naught.

True ... but I want to save the "trigger" position for a vertical launch cell mini-missile pack, to be built into my saddlebags.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

This is the kinda horn I've always wanted...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iPKjSHUjNE

Found it!

http://tinyurl.com/2657mad

Every time!