BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Could we be getting this engine soon?


http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/ ... -gs-spied/?

I do love me some GS. If I thought I was ever going to ride off road, I'd get one.
If they do drop that motor into a R12R, it may actually be worth upgrading to.
And someone should dingle whoever it was at MCN who put the watermark right on top of the good bits, so that you can't really see a damm thing.

More stuff: http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/7014/ ... -spy-shots

What I heard is the water cooled boxer is scheduled for the 2013 GS, and then the other models will be upgraded after that. I thought they would get more horsepower, but evidently the water cooling is more to meet other mandates like emissions.

Not to sound like a knuckle dragger or anything but, with a 150hp multistrada and a 135hp tiger it would hurt BMW not to have at least 135hp.

I heard a rumour and nothing more than that, they are supposed to be selling the watercooled along side the oil cooled for a period of time then eventually phase out the oil cooled. Personally speaking the attraction to the R1200R was because it is not water cooled so I guess I will be purchasing one of the last oil cooled, be nice if it could have one more power upgrade before then.

If BMW follows their usual pattern - the "Roadster" is always the last bike to be updated.. and as big a change as the new engine is, it won't be an update, these will all be entirely new models of the bikes. If the GS comes out in '13 - I wouldn't expect to see a new Roadster before 2015 (pattern is usually 1st year - GS, 2nd year - RT, 3rd year - Roadster.) It was fairly simple for them to design the camhead engine to fit in the hexhead frames since the bottom end (and mounting points) are basically identical. Not so with a water cooled engine, plus the need to dangle all the damn water cooling crap (I'm not at all biased.. much..) off the bike will require a new frame.

And that would be about the right time period - BMW plans on about 8 to 9 years out of a model, with a 4 year "refresh" (which is what the camhead models are.) The GS came out in '04 - so 8-9 years is 2013 (or late in 2012), the RT in 2005 - 8-9 and a bit years is 2014, the R in 2007 - 8 years is 2015. There was the ugly duckling ST in the original 1200 series, (replaced by the R1200S - which also failed) so that may have buggered the time-line just a bit.

BTW - anyone thought about dropping an R1200S engine in an R1200R? 122HP should be enough to be noticeable.

"BTW - anyone thought about dropping an R1200S engine in an R1200R? 122HP should be enough to be noticeable."

What parts differ in the two models?

Mark

I know they are geared differently.

What's the down side of water cooled engines?

objectuser wrote:What's the down side of water cooled engines?

I would imagine it would be the additional weight of the cooling system and size of the engine, and to some people the aesthetics.

I think any additional weight is so insignificant that it's a non-issue. Aesthetics? Maybe to some. The only real downside I can see is that there will be a radiator up front with a whole lot of very hot air blowing back on the rider. For guys who have ridden boxers for years, it'll be a shock.

On the other hand, a water cooled engine should be quieter and get better fuel mileage.

Additional complexity would be a downside, along with weight. Presumably the cost would be higher too. But for me, radiators just don't look right on motorcycles. They can design the bike such that the radiator is hidden (sort of) behind bodywork. But the less bodywork the better, in my opinion.

kidtwist wrote:Additional complexity would be a downside, along with weight. Presumably the cost would be higher too. But for me, radiators just don't look right on motorcycles. They can design the bike such that the radiator is hidden (sort of) behind bodywork. But the less bodywork the better, in my opinion.

An oil cooler is basically the same thing, and my bike ('11) has a big oil cooler on it. I haven't done any scientific measuring, but I'd guess it's about 60% of the combined radiator area on my VFR (split rads on each side of the bike under the bodywork). We don't really have lot of details on the new setup, but I'd heard something about only water-cooling the heads or something like that. I don't think it'll be a huge radiator - so I think it could end up looking similar to the current oil cooler setup.

I've also seen some Japanese cruisers with radiators that were really well hidden with very minimal bodywork. It's not impossible to do, and if anyone can do it, it should be BMW.

I'm with you - I love the lack of bodywork on my bike (although I like bikes with bodywork too). But this might be non-issue, visually at least.

objectuser wrote:What's the down side of water cooled engines?

Complexity and maintenance. With increased complexity comes increased changes for failure. (Law of Unintended Consequences.. which is why I also think nuclear reactors are really dumb.. but I digress..)

deilenberger wrote:

objectuser wrote:What's the down side of water cooled engines?

Complexity and maintenance. With increased complexity comes increased changes for failure. (Law of Unintended Consequences.. which is why I also think nuclear reactors are really dumb.. but I digress..)

Hypothetically true, but there are tons of examples of just the opposite: Honda VFRs and STs, BMW Flying Bricks, Suzuki SVs and V-Stroms... the list is quite long. Water-cooled doesn't equal high maintenance and unreliable, by any means.

I definitely won't be put off by the increased complexity, per se. If, in the end, it's a fun and reliable bike, I'll be interested (GS, R, whatever).

It seems like there are a lot of cool bikes coming out this year: Tiger Explorer, new GS, Versys 1000 ... should be fun.

deilenberger wrote:

objectuser wrote:What's the down side of water cooled engines?

Complexity and maintenance. With increased complexity comes increased changes for failure. (Law of Unintended Consequences.. which is why I also think nuclear reactors are really dumb.. but I digress..)

Lets put it this way, if they could overcome emission regulations, increase power and keep the reliability, you bet they would stay air/oil cooled so I have to agree with you on this one.

For me I would just like the cruise control of the new Tiger Explorer on my R1200R, that would make it complete, there are some good bikes coming out at the moment the market seems very competitive but it would take a fair bit to move me from my bike of the moment.

+1 on the cruise control