Vibration vs. RPM vs. Throttle Position

[Hatepylons]

Hello all, just a (hopefully) quick question.....

I just bought a new R1200R Classic. Love the bike. Coming off of a Spring GT and Triumph Tiger. Bike has 600 miles on it now, I've followed BMW's break-in procedure like a bad religion when it came to RPM limits. Did first oil & final drive change at 300mi, about to do it again.

This is my first BMW and my first twin, so I'm not sure if what I'm experiencing is correct or not. From 2500-4000rpm, bike is buttery smooth. From 4000-6000, it develops a vibration that is throttle dependent - the more throttle, the worse it gets, and being in a higher gear (therefore higher load) exacerbates this. As revs climb the vibrations become more closely gapped but in severity they are consistent. Crossing 6K, it smooths out up until 8-ish - not interested in hitting the rev limiter on such a new bike.

So here's what I'm trying to figure out. I can't tell if I'm lugging the motor in these higher gears or if this vibration is normal, etc etc. The engine is just so damn smooth on maintenance throttle and engine braking within 4-6K that I'm thinking it might be a fueling or operator issue.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[Acpantera]

This boxer is a strange animal, there was talk that its way over square design along with its very short connecting rods tend to hammer through the drive line and is felt even more so when load increases. I have gotten used to it, and have explored the gears to minimise the vibes.

[David R]

Everything will smooth out in time. Its a long lasting engine so it takes a long time to break in. Just keep riding it. Don't be afraid of the engine, its bomb proof. That is a quote from a BMW mechanic of friend mine.

Brakes will improve with time, engine will smooth out. Just when you think its as good as it gets, it will get better. I have 15,000 on my 12 R1200R and its probably as good as it gets.

The fueling has not even settled in at 600 miles.

Enjoy the bike
David

[Hatepylons]

Thank you for your feedback! I figured/hoped the motor was still a bit tight.

[Mark_1]

Hatepylons,

Sounds normal. You should notice a big improvement at the 600 mile service when the valves are adjusted and the throttle bodies are synchronized. The engine takes quite a while to break in, but gets smoother with miles.

Throttle position is probably not a contributing factor other than it determines RPM (throttle has a cam feature to progressively control fuel).

The engine really excels approaching the 8k RPM range - enjoy!

Also, I advise staying with standard "mineral" oil vs synthetic until the rings wear in. I changed over at the 600 service to synthetic and had excessive oil consumption problems until going back to the standard oil.

Congrats!
Mark_1

[Woland]

Thank you for your feedback! I figured/hoped the motor was still a bit tight.

While the vibrations might improve over time lets not forget that its a twin we're talking about, and twins vibrate.

How do your new R1200R compare to your tiger? Was it a 1050 Tiger?

Reason I ask is I have a slight, usually ignorable urge, to try one out. That triple sure sounds fantastic, but I'd be interested in your comparison.

[Hatepylons]

Also, I advise staying with standard "mineral" oil vs synthetic until the rings wear in. I changed over at the 600 service to synthetic and had excessive oil consumption problems until going back to the standard oil.

Congrats!
Mark_1

Mark,

Thanks for the feedback. I try to do as much of my own service as possible, and I plan on balancing the throttle bodies tomorrow. I did the first fluid swap(s) at 300mi, using only the BMW factory fill products. So whatever they put in their pretty plastic bottles is what I'll be running for at least the first two years.

JW

[Hatepylons]

While the vibrations might improve over time lets not forget that its a twin we're talking about, and twins vibrate.

Right, I knew going into this that there'd be vibes. I just didn't want to be doing something dramatically detrimental to it. Breaking in my Sprint 1050 was very difficult to NOT lug due to RPM restrictions/gearing, and lugging a new motor isn't the best thing.

How do your new R1200R compare to your tiger? Was it a 1050 Tiger?

Reason I ask is I have a slight, usually ignorable urge, to try one out. That triple sure sounds fantastic, but I'd be interested in your comparison.

There isn't. I had a Sprint GT 1050 (that I sold for the R) and still currently have a Tiger 955i. The Triple motor is simply fantastic. Power everywhere, very smooth, addicting sound(s). I heavily demo'd a Tiger 1050 before getting the Sprint GT. The only knock on the Tiger 1050 is simple physics - you and the bike's center of gravity is much higher than on the R. The Triple makes a convincing case to ignore that detail, however. Like most things, it comes down to preference. Personally there absolutely no freaking way that I'd buy a Tiger 1050 over an R for where I am and the kind of riding I do. Comparatively speaking, the R is just to easy to fling around.

FWIW, I have no intention of parting ways with my 955i. Yes, the engine *is* that good plus I love my Tiger. 31K miles together.

[deilenberger]

Everything will smooth out in time. Its a long lasting engine so it takes a long time to break in. Just keep riding it. Don't be afraid of the engine, its bomb proof. That is a quote from a BMW mechanic of friend mine.

Brakes will improve with time, engine will smooth out. Just when you think its as good as it gets, it will get better. I have 15,000 on my 12 R1200R and its probably as good as it gets.

The fueling has not even settled in at 600 miles.

Enjoy the bike
David

15,000 miles still isn't broken in. Mine continues to get smoother and smoother. Wait for 70,000 miles for feeling really smooth.

[roadfool]

Welcome to the world of the R motor. What you are experiencing is perfectly normal for the boxer motor, it' those characteristic that define it. As others have said, as it breaks in it will smooth out a bit and the low end trq seems to increase some. I too avoid running synthetic based oil as it does seem to increase consumption a bit. Many run Rotella T from Wal Mart as it has the required rating defined by BMW. Yes, thes motors will burn a bit .5-1.0/1K mile seem to be the norm.

Enjoy your new ride. Ride far, have fun, be safe.

Regards, Paul

[deilenberger]

Can't speak to the newer OHC engines, but the original hexhead engines certainly are around that use no oil, or very little oil. My '07 with 70,000+ miles on it uses about top of the oil window to the center of the oil window between 6,000 mile changes. I haven't had to add oil since the engine passed about 20,000 miles. Synthetic vs dino - we can go off on an entire oil thread (which actually beats out tire threads as one with the most divergent opinions), but just to throw in an oddball.. I've now switched to Castrol TWS (aka Edge) 10W-60 full synthetic oil. This oil was engineered for the BMW M-car engines, specifically the S54US (and later used in the V8 M-engine - S62?).. These engines were experiencing some bottom end problems - bad bearings, and BMW worked with Castrol to come up with an oil that would protect the bearings. The oil has several things going for it that make it a good choice for our engines:

- It's fully synthetic. If you remember the synthetic wars where different oil companies were using different base stock and making claims that they're synthetic - this is a Polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock, and can be sold in Germany as a synthetic (they don't allow Group-III base stock oils to be sold as a synthetic.)

- It's refined and bottled in Germany

- It has a very high ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate) content. ZDDP is the zinc additive that protects from metal to metal contact if the oil film breaks down. The EPA has regulated it out of most "energy saving" oils (or greatly reduced the amount used) since it can cause premature failure of catalytic converters. It will only do that IF the engine is burning oil. I've had this oil analyzed a number of times by Blackstone Labs, including a "virgin" (unused) sample. The ZDDP level is about at the level that good oils used to have before the EPA started mandating things (1,600+ PPM). ZDDP is a very good thing for a flat-tappet sort of engine, which is exactly what the pre-OHC (pre 2011) R1200R engines are. It's also good for bearings if the bike falls on it's side with the engine running for a moment (and no oil circulating.)

- It costs the same (or less - depends on your dealer) then the BMW synthetic motorcycle oil.

- My engine sounds much happier. It is MUCH quieter on startup. When it's hot (like now - 95F in NJ) the engine runs about 1 bar cooler on the display, and seems to stay cooler when stuck in traffic (which is now - I'm at the NJ shore, and all the summer visitors are here causing traffic jams.)

You can buy it at your friendly local BMW car dealer. It's not generally available in auto parts stores, but that may change as it's becoming quite popular among non-M-car owners who had done performance modifications to their cars.

Also available on line (ECS are good people): http://www.ecstuning.com/ES2580488/PriceAlert/

Anyway - sorry about derailing this thread...

[ammolab]

I've now switched to Castrol TWS (aka Edge) 10W-60 full synthetic oil. This oil was engineered for the BMW M-car engines, specifically the S54US (and later used in the V8 M-engine - S62?).. These engines were experiencing some bottom end problems - bad bearings, and BMW worked with Castrol to come up with an oil that would protect the bearings.

If only that TWS was good enough to "protect the bearings"! So many of S54 powered M coupe owners have paid for new rod bearings in spite of the TWS.

Are you still lucky, Don?

[deilenberger]

I've now switched to Castrol TWS (aka Edge) 10W-60 full synthetic oil. This oil was engineered for the BMW M-car engines, specifically the S54US (and later used in the V8 M-engine - S62?).. These engines were experiencing some bottom end problems - bad bearings, and BMW worked with Castrol to come up with an oil that would protect the bearings.

If only that TWS was good enough to "protect the bearings"! So many of S54 powered M coupe owners have paid for new rod bearings in spite of the TWS.

Are you still lucky, Don?

So far the Blackstone reports have come back clean.. but my M-Coupe gets less than 2,000 miles a year on it since I have other toys to play with. You're correct though - it should say BMW/Castrol came up with an oil they thought would cover BMW's ass for the bearing failures..

[Hatepylons]

Anyway - sorry about derailing this thread...

Nonsense. You provided a lot of good & well articulated information - thank you for that. I understand the benefits of the ZDDP content - I work for a Corvette parts company and a lot of my wholesalers would be interested in knowing about the Castrol if they don't already. *Supposedly* the latest and greatest HP 15-50 is a Castrol blend according to my BMW parts guy - I do trust he's accurately relaying what he's been told, but I haven't bothered to confirm it yet.

I ended up syncing up the throttle bodies tonight - surprisingly they were way out of sync (surprising for 765 miles). Weather prevented me from riding after the work to see if there was a tangible difference, but I'm sure it won't hurt. I have a 2100mi trip starting Tuesday..... plenty of time to find out!

[Steve H.]

I agree with Don Eilinberger apsolutly.It takes long-loooong mls to brake in.Just after 6,000mls it is smooter than before.It is gating smooter,so need your patient,only.I can see on my bike exactly what is happening abouth brakeing in.Step,by step it is becoming smooter.Oil comsumtion is down to 100-150ml/1000km.But consuming oil still.So check oil level,add oil and drive it.That's all abouth.Please do not forget to drive it HARD.This bike needs it.

Best regards,Steve H.(Rrrrrrrrred)

[Steve H.]

Anyway - sorry about derailing this thread...

Nonsense. You provided a lot of good & well articulated information - thank you for that. I understand the benefits of the ZDDP content - I work for a Corvette parts company and a lot of my wholesalers would be interested in knowing about the Castrol if they don't already. *Supposedly* the latest and greatest HP 15-50 is a Castrol blend according to my BMW parts guy - I do trust he's accurately relaying what he's been told, but I haven't bothered to confirm it yet.

I ended up syncing up the throttle bodies tonight - surprisingly they were way out of sync (surprising for 765 miles). Weather prevented me from riding after the work to see if there was a tangible difference, but I'm sure it won't hurt. I have a 2100mi trip starting Tuesday..... plenty of time to find out! [/qu


Well,it is possible throttle bodies out of sync.But...that is unusual.They might bee slightly out, but no too much.Interesting! I would get walve clearences as close as possible, than check for throttle syncs.I am positive,there wouldn't too much differences at all,if any.

best regards,Steve H.

[BoxerSteve]

My camhead R1200GS has a bit of vibration around 4500 RPM that is getting better as the engine breaks in. Currently it has 10.6 K on it so it is just starting to get broken in. And I did not baby it during breakin, have you seen motoman's site re: how to break in an engine? http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm.

As an aside, what do you have against pylons?

[David R]

My camhead R1200GS has a bit of vibration around 4500 RPM that is getting better as the engine breaks in. Currently it has 10.6 K on it so it is just starting to get broken in. And I did not baby it during breakin, have you seen motoman's site re: how to break in an engine? http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm.

As an aside, what do you have against pylons?

I have read motormans engine destroying method.

NO I don't agree with it.

Nuff said do as you wish with your brand new motor.

[BoxerSteve]

I have read motormans engine destroying method.

NO I don't agree with it.

Nuff said do as you wish with your brand new motor.

Here is a thread on advrider on engine break-in you might find interesting.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=813543

I didn't run my engine quite as hard as motoman recommends but I think his ideas are sound.

The breakin procedure in my owner's manual isn't all that different from motoman's - they are no longer recommending a new engine be babied like they used to.

[Karamazov]

I have read motormans engine destroying method.

NO I don't agree with it.

Nuff said do as you wish with your brand new motor.David R
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Anybody wanna discuss the merits of synthetic oil, or share their opinions on blue pipes?