BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

This morning we were approaching Damascus, VA and heard a grinding, rattling scream from below. No power; pulled over.

No phone service.

Hitched to town.

No phone service.

Riding the R1150R (2002, of course) has been perfect until now. Perfect amount of room for pillion and gear. Fun to ride.

But sheeeeeit. This sucks.


m

I'm sorry! We all hate to hear this as it reminds us of potentials. How many miles on your bike?
Are you planning to tackle this yourself or take it to a shop?

Sorry for your loss. Really.

For the rebuild, consider a modified clutch/hub:

http://www.r1150r.net/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24244

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx3e0gqzylY

http://mr-cob.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/R ... in-R1150GS

http://www.brunos.us

And for DIY clutch modification:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964425

Thanks for the links!

I typed the original post while my girlfriend and I were sitting at the coffee shop in Damascus, waiting for the tow truck. FYI, there is no AT&T service in Damascus but there is free WiFi at the coffee shop. I had to use a Google voice app to place calls to U Haul and BMW MOA Roadside Assistance. The experience with the Roadside Assistance was great; we were loaded up and on the way to the U Haul in Johnson City, TN within two hours of calling and home by 9PM!

Backing up the story a bit, my girlfriend and I were beginning our journey home after three days of fantastic riding, hiking and camping in western VA. The weather was perfect and the roads were empty. We were about five miles from from Damascus when I eased on the throttle exiting a turn and heard the squeal and rattle. I put the bike in gear a few times just before we coasted over to the shoulder of the road, but no-go.

It is a weird feeling of calmness when this happens. You know that it is likely worn input shaft splines. And you know that it can not be fixed "on the road". Fortunately for us, we weren't on some backwoods fire road or in heavy city traffic. But we were almost 350 miles from home.

About the bike, I purchased it ~three years ago (~12K miles) and it now has ~35K miles. Service is up to date. I just installed a fresh PR3 rear before the trip. I was sooo close to dropping $1400 on new shocks about a month ago; glad I didn't.

Looks like I'll spend my lunch hour checking the links you provided and looking around at options. I already have a bike that I like to take apart and put back together over and over again (Norton) so part of me doesn't want to get in the habit of tearing the R apart. But, I also don't want to get in the habit of paying someone else to do it again and again.

We'll see. Thanks for your input!!!

m

I think you would be the perfect candidate to try out doing nothing but installing offset hub. I still think even with worn input shaft new offset clutch splines would provide more contact surface then factory clutch did when new.
And naked R is not a difficult bike to work on. I think people with RT's are the ones that should complain more than us "naked" people.
I have done it 4-5 times so far and it is getting to the point that I can take the gearbox out in under an hour and back in in about 2. So if you are used to work on bikes this one is simple. You dont really own anything until you disassemble it. Only then, it is truly your machine. let me know.
Esmir

I visited the local BMW/HD dealer yesterday. The new BMW/HD service manager implied that I would be better off doing the work myself ($2700 quote for clutch replacement only; wouldn't be able to start on it until the end of the year). I'm now doing a little searching to find an independent mechanic to get a second opinion. I'll probably just go ahead and tear in to it this weekend. I have a Haynes manual on the way that I hope will be helpful.

After the reading I've done so far, installing the offset hub would be my first choice but I'm not clear on where to source this. The one on ADV rider seems like there is a long list ahead of me. Guess I should get on the list

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

cheers,

m

mcampy wrote:I visited the local BMW/HD dealer yesterday...

After the reading I've done so far, installing the offset hub would be my first choice but I'm not clear on where to source this. The one on ADV rider seems like there is a long list ahead of me...

m

1. Where are you located?

2. The maker of the ADV clutch hub spacer is Esmir (vwdoctor) who posted two messages above. I just bought one of his spacers but have no urgent need... If he sees my post, he can sell you my allocated part and I can wait until another batch is finished. Hoping you see this, Esmir.

cele0001 = vwdoctor = Esmir = me.
If you decide to do it yourself let me know. You can PM me either here or on ADV rider. I tend to be over there more.
Most of the time people will change input shaft or replace transmission but I think that only "pushing" new clutch plate onto the "slightly" worn shaft would be very close to doing the same thing. I was even joking around that worn area of the shaft would provide a reservoir of sorts for the lube.
I am thinking that given the age of these bikes, minimum cost (money time and labor) solution would become more and more appealing to the people as the time progresses.
Esmir

sweatmark wrote:

mcampy wrote:I visited the local BMW/HD dealer yesterday...

After the reading I've done so far, installing the offset hub would be my first choice but I'm not clear on where to source this. The one on ADV rider seems like there is a long list ahead of me...

m

1. Where are you located?

2. The maker of the ADV clutch hub spacer is Esmir (vwdoctor) who posted two messages above. I just bought one of his spacers but have no urgent need... If he sees my post, he can sell you my allocated part and I can wait until another batch is finished. Hoping you see this, Esmir.

I see everything. . You are OK, I have a couple of "unadvertised" units.

Thanks to vwdoctor for your logical solution to a serious engineering design flaw.

Like sweatmark and had I kept my `02 R1150R I would also have ordered the hub spacer and immediately installed it.

CycleRob wrote:Thanks to vwdoctor for your logical solution to a serious engineering design flaw.

Like sweatmark and had I kept my `02 R1150R I would also have ordered the hub spacer and immediately installed it.

Thank you for your vote of confidence.

I pulled the gearbox/swingarm/final drive off during lunch hour today. Aaaaaaand here's the damage...

Clutch hub:


Input shaft...

If you can picture moving the clutch plate 6mm deeper you will end up on "virgin" part of the input shaft and worn part would stay in the middle.

The housing for the clutch slave in the gearbox looks nasty. Dried up clutch fluid but no gearbox oil.



Clutch slave cylinder.



Any suggestions on whether I should rebuild the clutch slave cylinder or just buy a new one?

m

vwdoctor wrote:If you can picture moving the clutch plate 6mm deeper you will end up on "virgin" part of the input shaft and worn part would stay in the middle.

This is indeed what I am picturing right now (hopefully I can get a few more miles in before sending the gearbox off for the inevitable input $pline $haft install)

I'm now ready to place an order for clutch parts. I'm planning to order a clutch plate, a clutch housing, inner bolts and possibly a new slave cylinder.

m

There are clutch plates that can stand oil and other contaminants just in case a leak would develop , hate for you to have to go in again for that.
Good luck with your project.
Mike

Correction on my previous statement. Clutch plate stays in the same plane. Clutch hub is moved 6mm onto the input shaft by inserting the spacer between clutch plate and clutch hub. Just want to clarify that.

BTW here is what my shaft looks like. Very early stage of failure but you can see the path from here to your condition. So I am not just an owner I am also a customer. This was at 24k miles

mcampy wrote:The housing for the clutch slave in the gearbox looks nasty. Dried up clutch fluid but no gearbox oil.



Any suggestions on whether I should rebuild the clutch slave cylinder or just buy a new one?

m

I would open it up and see what the situation with the seals is, if you know what you are doing. They mostly fail because bearing start to seize which creates friction between bearing and pushrod which causes the bearing to seize more which creates more......
Anyway, end result is that the slave cylinder "guts" start to spin in the bore when you pull the clutch which creates heat and wears the rubber which causes leaks. It also throws disintegrated rubber particles and heats the fluid which can cause.... So bottom line, If the bearing is fine than slave cylinder is probably fine. If the fluid is clear that is a good indication that things are OK.
On our bikes replacing the cylinder is not that difficult and it is not a failure that will leave you stranded.
Some people drill a small hole on the bottom of cylinder to see if (when)it is leaking since fluid goes out and on the ground (or wherever you route it). This is a good idea while it is out. I keep forgetting to do it.


Unlike Japanese bikes you should not sit at the light in gear with the clutch pulled in on BMW.
Put it in neutral and release the clutch. When you are ready to go pull the clutch in and shift in first immediately. It should almost be one motion. This is how you avoid "no first gear engagement" design issue.

I say go cheap but I have been wrong before.

Esmir -
You said - They mostly fail because bearing start to seize -

How can that be prevented?

Cheers, Kurt

aerokurt wrote:Esmir -
You said - They mostly fail because bearing start to seize -

How can that be prevented?

Cheers, Kurt

I think the best way to reduce the potential for failure is to minimize the clutch engagement. Don't sit with the clutch engaged. Use the clutch as intended, pull, shift, release. There is a lot of force on that little bearing while it is engaged. While the cylinder is out you can check and lightly lubricate it, but I think it mostly comes down to prolonged spinning (under pressure) creating heat and it goes easily from there.