My next helmet will cost $80!

Lance1150 · Post by **Lance1150** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:22 pm

After reading this article

http://motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/

I'm convinced that cheap isn't a bad thing when it comes to mc helmets.

If the $80 helmet is comfortable, it's my next choice.

Z1R ZRP-1 (I wonder if they sell em at Wal-Mart?)

darthrider · Post by **darthrider** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:26 pm

I have half of a cantaloupe and 2' of duct tape I'll let you have for $1.73.
Can't beat that...cheaper is better!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:38 pm

I would need tha punkin head size please.....and 3' of tape. At least give a melon head the benefit of the doubt.

FGanger · Post by **FGanger** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:22 pm

Lance,
Thanks for posting that link. I read it and it actually made sense to me.

Frank

NCRoaster · Post by **NCRoaster** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:54 pm

Lance,

I agree with you. I read the Motorcyclist article when it was published in the magazine a couple months ago. The study was well done and very convincing. I just wish they had tested some of those high-end helmets that we all pay way too much for. Of course, The Z1R that came out at the top of the list is no longer made. The article made me think completely differently about motorcycle helmets. Thanks for posting the link here so that everyone can get this other perspective.

My next helmet will cost $80 too.

NCRoaster

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:16 pm

Snell's response:
http://www.smf.org/pdf/btlo_response.pdf

I don't think any bad can come out of this type of back and forth. It will only help to raise the level of intelligence about an important subject. I think both parties raise valid points, etc.

big papa · Post by **big papa** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:17 pm

I think many are now believing that after a certain price point, you are paying for a better finish and more features(like venting or low weight or removeable/washable interior). Maybe we were duped in the past by Arai and Shoei into thinking a $600 helmet bought you 3x the safety as a $200 one. As a die hard Arai wearer, I sure like those new Scorpion Helmets @ only $180.

http://helmetharbor.com/streethelmets/h ... pening.htm

Post by **DJ Downunder** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:24 pm

I liked this bit.....

To understand how a helmet protectsÃ¢â‚¬â€or doesn't protectÃ¢â‚¬â€your brain, it helps to appreciate just how fragile that organ actually is. The consistency of the human brain is like warm Jello. It's so gooey that when pathologists remove a brain from a cadaver, they have to use a kind of cheesecloth hammock to hold it together as it comes out of the skull.

I like jelly...but not warm brain jelly...I don't really understand what they're getting at by this comment.

DJ

Lance1150 · Post by **Lance1150** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:49 pm

Optimus:

I imagine you read the rebuttal to that reply.... of course the snell folks will make a case for why their unrealistic tests make sense, it's their bread and butter.

For most of us the cost of the helmet will not matter at ALL in a crash.. we'll either be saved from scraping off a bunch of skin and various cosmetic damage to our noggin, or we'll die regardless of what helmet we have.. very little in between in the real world. In a BIG crash where our head hits something HARD, we're done.

P.S. Darth, hopefully your response wasn't an automatic dismissal of that helmet test... we're all being duped by the big helmet companies and should realize we're paying SEVERAL hundred bucks for the name on the thing.

darthrider · Post by **darthrider** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:00 pm

I don't think Arai or Shoei has ever told people "their $600 helmets are three times as safe as a $200 one".

What they say is they build the safest helmet they possibly can and that costs a lot of money. Reasonable & intelligent people may disagree what constitutes the "safest helmet". In the US we have DOT and Snell and they build the best they can to obtain those approvals. In Europe they market helmets that are quite different. Those are expensive too.

Part of the difference in price is in fit & finish, part features & comfort, part (a small part) the racer's compensation & other marketing costs, a major part of it is the the costs of the extreme measures they continually go to in their R&D efforts to bring us better helmets. A significant part is the costs of the level of customer support VS that of the $80.00 KMart specials.
If you are influenced by the Motorcyclist article, at least read Snell's response and those of various others who don't see things quite the same way. And don't allow yourself to be overly influenced by a different set of "experts" who reach conclusions that support your preference for "cheap" helmets.

The one thing we can all agree on I'm sure is "wear the helmet". And if you choose the low-end cheaper helmet, or the high-end expensive ones, be sure you have the kind(s) of crashes they are best at.

And please don't be so jaded that you think the helmet makers are only interested in selling you all the helmets they can and jacked up prices. I know some of them pretty well and I don't think that at all. Arai seems to me the most genuinely concerned company I've ever seen about the welfare of their customers, and a sincere dedication to doing their absolute best. Far more so than the 3 American Fortune 100 companies I spent 35 years working for.

What do I wear? I happen to work for a company where I can get almost any helmet cheap. I wear an Arai Quantum F and a KBC Racer 1 "Retro". Both are DOT, both are Snell, both are full face, niether are flip-front.

Post by **Biff's R** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:54 pm

The one thing we can all agree on I'm sure is "wear the helmet". And if you choose the low-end cheaper helmet, or the high-end expensive ones, be sure you have the kind(s) of crashes they are best at.

Amen.

Post by **cricman** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:04 pm

I am currently wearing a Z1R Strike. I think it is a very nice helmet. As mentioned above, as a lower priced helmet, it lacks a few "comfort and convenience" refinements. The ventilation is fair at best. Of course, is there really enough ventilation to keep a head cool in North Central Texas? Secondly, the liner is fixed. Warm, damp clothes and Fabreze have held back the oncoming funk so far, but its only a matter of time before it stinks too much to tolerate it.

Would I buy another one? Absolutely! It fits me as well, or better than any other helmet I tried on, ranging in price from $95 to $395. The replacement shields were affordable and available in several tints.

Just my 2 cents,

cricman

collyers · Post by **collyers** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:16 pm

I want the best for my head. Protection & comfort go hand in hand. I'll bet my AGV TiTech (a $600+ bucket that I stole on ebay for $275 NEW) is a lot more comfortable, more quiet, (than any $200 helmet), and everything inside is removable & washable (coolmax is a beautiful thing). Plus, the shield takes zero tools & 30 seconds to change out, with every tint imaginable available for it. No contest when quality is even remotely a factor. I'm not cheaping out - even if I had to scour ebay for it.
Life's too short to buy crap. Or drink cheap coffee. Or miss Supermoto races. Or...

solitario11 · Post by **solitario11** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:11 pm

I was under the understanding that the weight is connected to the prices,,in cycling helmets the lighter the more expensive,,becasue they all protect the same...is actually easy to make a safe helmet but to make it light is a different story! I have an old bell helmet form the 80s ( I dont use it but cant bring myself to thruw it away) and it weights a ton!

Post by **DJ Downunder** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:22 pm

I was under the understanding that the weight is connected to the prices,,

My $700 BMW system helmet is way heavier than my cheap $100 Lazer helmet.

I'm sure they both work....but...I understand the cheaper plastic helmets tend to bounce more and could cause a neck injury.

It's a bit like shoes...cheap and expencive...they both work...it comes down to what you can afford...and how important it is to you.

DJ

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:38 pm

darthrider wrote:I don't think Arai or Shoei has ever told people "their $600 helmets are three times as safe as a $200 one".

What they say is they build the safest helmet they possibly can and that costs a lot of money. Reasonable & intelligent people may disagree what constitutes the "safest helmet". In the US we have DOT and Snell and they build the best they can to obtain those approvals. In Europe they market helmets that are quite different. Those are expensive too.

Part of the difference in price is in fit & finish, part features & comfort, part (a small part) the racer's compensation & other marketing costs, a major part of it is the the costs of the extreme measures they continually go to in their R&D efforts to bring us better helmets. A significant part is the costs of the level of customer support VS that of the $80.00 KMart specials.
If you are influenced by the Motorcyclist article, at least read Snell's response and those of various others who don't see things quite the same way. And don't allow yourself to be overly influenced by a different set of "experts" who reach conclusions that support your preference for "cheap" helmets.

The one thing we can all agree on I'm sure is "wear the helmet". And if you choose the low-end cheaper helmet, or the high-end expensive ones, be sure you have the kind(s) of crashes they are best at.

And please don't be so jaded that you think the helmet makers are only interested in selling you all the helmets they can and jacked up prices. I know some of them pretty well and I don't think that at all. Arai seems to me the most genuinely concerned company I've ever seen about the welfare of their customers, and a sincere dedication to doing their absolute best. Far more so than the 3 American Fortune 100 companies I spent 35 years working for.

What do I wear? I happen to work for a company where I can get almost any helmet cheap. I wear an Arai Quantum F and a KBC Racer 1 "Retro". Both are DOT, both are Snell, both are full face, niether are flip-front.

Well said Dave

Post by **Pat** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:38 pm

I've got a DOT half helmet,
a cheap DOT "skull cap",
a couple Vega's,
a couple Zeus' modulars,
and I've worn out a couple Nolan flip-ups,
and of course a $700.00 Arai RX7.

I wear them each for specific occasions.........

Fact of the matter is,
my Arai is the best fitting (and most comfortable),
the Zeus' are VERY handy but I avoid them on my "spirited" rides,
and my half helmets are simply novelty items that happen to be legal...... and they don't do a danm thing for protecting me from the elements or contributing to ANY comfort.

Buy a helmet that fits properly, wear it, and in more cases than not......
it's universally known that (for the most part),
you get what you pay for.

And I've gotten one hell of a lot of satisfaction from some inexpensive helmets. I have no idea though how they might perform in keeping my "warm jello" intact though......

Lance1150 · Post by **Lance1150** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:21 am

P.S. The cheap helmet in the article was also very light....

And, the statement about 'make sure you have the sort of crash the helmet was made for' speaks to the key point of the article that some of you didn't bother to read before responding... the fact that the snell tests are NOT representitive of real-life motorcycle crashes, and meeting the snell standards of heavy force repetitive drops onto a small object make those helmets less able to 'absorb' enough energy, through crushing the inside material, to keep the force from your brain. The point of the article was that the 'softer' / cheaper helmet's insides allow less force to reach the brain, which ought to be the idea.

The snell standards, the article says, are based on flawed models of real motorcycle accidents, and old science regarding how much force to the brain should be allowed.

Our expensive helmets will crush less in real-life accidents, allow more damage to your brain, but will withstand a second crash if someone picks up your dead body and tosses you off a bridge.

That's my three cents.

Post by **new2BMW** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:49 am

if someone picks up your dead body and tosses you off a bridge.

Only in California do people have to worry about this kind of activity.!

Post by **KHaynes** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:22 am

Price is never the first consideration for a helmet. The most important element of choice is the fit. All helmets offer protection. Apart from the material, I believe that the cost is in the venting, the weight, the name brand and the style.

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My next helmet will cost $80!

My next helmet will cost $80!

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I think is all about weight??

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