Reliability of 1150/1200 motor

[T97]

I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding the reliability of the 1150 engine?

My department is looking into adding the BMW 1150 RT-P in conjunction with our F650 GS- P's. I tried to find unbiased information from guys using the bikes, but it's hard to get past the H*rley vs. BMW thing. Then add in the ST1300-P and it makes me really wonder if I did the right thing directing the department to purchase the 1150? It was near impossible to find out information for the H*nda from our two local H*nda dealers. I got the impression H*nda wasn't too interested in getting into the police market. BMW & H*rley had everything I wanted the next day.

One more thing. The purchase time may be aligned with the rollout of the new 1200 RT-P. Is the engine essentially the same or do I have to worry about reliability problems due to a new design?

Some other departments told me horror stories about a $5 piece located deep within the motor that systematically broke on all of their bikes. I also heard more stories about bikes having their motors replaced multiple times. Any information would be helpful.

Thanks

Kevin
_________________

[Jax]

Kevin, I've been riding Beemers since 1976 and have ridden around 600k miles. The boxer twin, whether the older airhead series or newer oilhead series (beginning in 1994-95) is highly reliable and it is rare to see an engine problem.
I have never heard of the $5 part story.

There have been some failures where the transmission input shaft goes into the clutch and mates with the engine. BMW will not admit that there is a problem but enough have failed to create a buzz on all of the BMW internet forums. BMWsporttouring.com (http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php) has over 9000 members and a survey was taken where anyone who had suffered this problem was asked to give the details of their problem. Only a small number of members indicated that they had suffered this problem so although there have been failures, it appears that they have not been widespread. The root cause of this problem has not been proven but it certainly leans towards a mis-alignment of the transmission to the engine.
The BMW RTP has been widely used around the world with positive results from the officers who ride them. There are several motor officers on the Sport Touring site. I would suggest that you also pose your question there to get some first-person comments.

[sjbmw]

if there were any problems with the bikes, surely we would know. 140 US Police depts would not be able to keep that secret.


http://www.ascycles.com/police_info.aspx

[peterbulgar]

Kevin,
This may turn into an interesting thread. You didn't indicate whether your department does its own maintenance or not. If not, you may want to look into cost of ownership: Following the BMW service schedule by the book with a BMW dealer doing the work is expensive in my experience. I looked at the A&S site and read their writeup on "authority motorcycles" and I'm going to take my bike there for the next service, if I can get the police rate. A&S shows a cost/mile for normal maintenance that is about half of what I've been paying. (If you ask a dealer about service cost, make sure they they include the less frequent items such as the $350 ABS system flush.)

Let us know what you find out about this.
Thanks, Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[T97]

No, we do not do our own work. We would have to contract out to a dealer.

When I looked into the Harley I found they demanded their company does all work on the cycles, including maintenance every 2,000 miles!

When you looked at the BMW numbers (6,000 between service) and that of the Harley it was almost a 2-3 to 1. Costs were comparable, but the Harley gave you a new cycle every 24 months. BUT, you were required to have their company change over the lighting equipment (16 hours @ shop rate) and pay for incremental increase of base cycle and finally you were required to change any damage equipment to make the cycle new. (parts, plus labor charge). It left a lot of room for possible problems.

I believe our department would be more interested in just OWNING the bike with no strings attached. I was given all of the maintenance costs over a life span of 6 years, 60,000 miles. I was concerned about any major repair costs associated with a problem motor.

How about the new 1200 motor? Same as the 1150?

[beekstersocal]

DUDE, these bikes run better the more miles they have on them
they are just starting to break in at 10'000 miles and most city p.d;s and the state highway patrol love them here in cally

[peterbulgar]

People more knowledgeable than I am will chime in, but here's what I know from reading the magazines: The big difference is that the 1200 motor has a balance shaft, a first for the BMW twin. Higher compression, dual O2 sensors and knock sensors, more horsepower. Yet another redesigned transmission. Redesigned ABS. The bike is anywhere from 20 to 60 pounds lighter, depending on whose scales are being used. With that many changes I would be inclined to wait about 10 years while the bugs get worked out, but several people on this and other lists have claimed that the 1200 introduction has been extremely trouble-free. A few random problems have been reported, but nothing that stands out. The 1200 has been around for a couple of years now, so maybe BMW got it right.

The California Highway Patrol and several local agencies in my area use the R1150RT-P bikes. Can you get a candid report from them?

Harleys require a service every 2000 miles? Wow! - unless it is just an oil change. Still, the bike would be off the road...
peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[JCsman]

FWIW
The local, Montgomery, Alabama, PD just switched from H-D to BMW. And, that is despite the fact we have a H-D dealer here, but the nearest BMW dealer is about 90 miles north.

Not to mention that, on occasion, the Patrolman might actually want/need a bike that can run fast, turn well and stop well .....

The R1200RT (civilian model) is sure getting universally high marks in those departments - even without using a H-D to set the bar height. (Limbo anyone?)...

(Jes' kiddn, jes' kiddn, H-D's are the loudest, uh, chromin'est, uh, well, you know.)

[bmwdave52]

Peter, good luck in getting the cheaper rate. If you pull it off let me know. I think the CHP is getting the volume discount.

T97, A&S sells the used CHP bikes. They have been well taken care of. They can at least answer your questions. A&S is the friendliest dealership I have ever encountered.

I think their slogan is "Buy the bike that pulled you over".
Catchy.

[T97]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I feel better now. I think I just needed someone to say that the bike is reliable. Not opting for the Harleys and all would cause a big problem with mud in my face should the BMW not work as advertised!

(I told you, you should have bought a Harley!) What I don't want to hear.

[TicTac50]

T97
Just another day I was passing by the airport, here in Miami and did see bunch police officers practicing braking techniques on the brand new BMW's. I was far away and did not see if they were 1150's or 1200's
Looks like Miami Dade county is going BMW.
1150RT-P is a wonderful machine, but the 1200RT-P is a big big improvement. Also I had a chance to ride 1200RT and ST1300. The Honda was too bulky for me. 1200RT was very nice and smooth ride. I do like the new gear box and the engine is much much better over 1150. About $5.00 part: I personally never heard of it, but if there is such a part, you have 36000 miles warranty and I am sure if the part is bad it will break with in 36000 miles.
As a tax payer I want my police officer to be comfortable on the job.
Go with the 1200RT-P's. Your guys will thank you for that.
Good luck.
What ever you get 1150's or 1200's, You can not go wrong with BMW.

[Arbreacames]

I feel better now. I think I just needed someone to say that the bike is reliable. Not opting for the Harleys and all would cause a big problem with mud in my face should the BMW not work as advertised!

(I told you, you should have bought a Harley!) What I don't want to hear.

Well, if the choice was that easy, you would not be paid the big bucks, right? Here are some thoughts to make your choice a little harder.

The absurd thing about the HDs is that Police Departments are auctioning them after 3 years for about what they paid for them new. Folks are willing to pay absurd prices for a HD whose speedometer is marked "Police". Regarding the reliability of the HDs, however, I hear than in 3 years almost half have needed a new engine! And they only have about 30-40k miles, if I recall.

Even if you love the beemer, the Honda ST-1300 is an awsome machine. You can test drive them in Atlanta. They will let you take to the mountains for an extended run. I know a cop and a city fleet manager wheo went together and were more than impressed. From what I understand, one potential limitation of the Honda is that it does not have a bettery dedicated to the police (communications?) equipment.

Although the reliability of the BMWs has not been a problem, according to my friend who is a fleet manager, dealer service has. These difficulties have been the principal drawback of the BMWs, according to him. I have always wondered, however, if police motorcycles are ever left idling. If so, that would spell big problems for an aircooled BMW...

[jamming]

I've been on a BMW's for 25 years, and a lot of miles. I've had some conversations with a few motor officers here in the Phoenix metro area
(none in a professinal sense if ya catch my drift) All on a BMW love them, with some exceptions: They don't turn as tight at low speeds as a KZ1000 bike, I'll give you that one, longer wheelbase on the RTP, way too easy to lose track of your speed and finding yourself at quasi illegal speeds( we wouldn't know anything about that would we ) the kickstand safety switch wearing out, remember thay put it down more in a day than I do in a week. I have heard of clutch failures due to them feathering the clutch at low speeds. I suggested he learn to use the torque of the boxer motor! I'd probabaly been arrested if not for the fact he's a good friend.
But all in all, they think they are way better than the KZ1000P and the HD.
The Honda is a fine bike, but it ain't made in Germany, probabaly run forever, but no soul.
One other thing, the comfort factor is no comparison, the BMW rocks!
Roger

[Brownw3]

The RT-P is clearly the superior (and now lower priced machine) The boxer engine is a superior engine and I would disagree with the above posters in that I don't think a Beemer engine is broken in until 10K miles. I would say its more like 20K miles!

The $5 part thing. Think about that for a moment. The 2000-2002RT bikes had a problem with spline alignment and it affected less than 1/2/ of 1% of production. Yet it became the most famous motorcycle malfunction of all times because BMW's, plain and simple, break rarely. I've had 5 of these things, all made before 1976 and have yet to experience a serious engine repair. My new R1150R is no exception.

The stylists will say anything, the officers that want the Motor Company bikes will say anything, but after it all the Beemer is, quite simply, a better police machine.

Cheers

[challey]

I spent quite a few years working, living and traveling in Europe and in virtually every country, the bike police are on BMW's. Given the internet and the speed at which information now travels, I would think that any serious shortcomings (like the $5 or €5 part that supposedly breaks all the time) would have been exposed a long time ago.
I wonder if there is any way for you to get some info from your brother officers in the UK, France, Germany, Belgium, the NL, Greece and Italy (although I've seen a few police on MG's there), all of whom are on BMW's?

[Arbreacames]

To be fair, there are lots of 1/2 or 1% problems that the 1150s are famous for. Here are some that come to mind:
-ABS that don't brake
-Final drives that disintegrate
-gearbox rear input seals that leak gear oil on the clutch
-clutch splines thet need 8-hour lube jobs
I love my R, I don't think it is unreliable, but I don't buy the "1/2 of 1%" statistics. Either that or I caught all the tails of the statistical distributions. What is wonderful is that these bikes will usually last "forever". When there is a problem with a part, you replace it and the bike is as good as new. Other motorcycles seem to get tired all over, making it impractical to restore them.

[T97]

I wonder how many of those smaller short comings will show themselves during the 39 month, unlimited mileage warranty period?

The predicted service life of my report was 60 months, so if it is a lemon I would hope it shows itself in the first 3.25 years.

Yes I can see these bikes being idled much more the average bike, but with the increase in all LED lights and dual batteries I know our 650 GS-Ps can sit lights flickering for a good hour to an hour and a half with absolutely no starting problems. The lighting on our cycles is very similar to the 1150's.

[wncbmw]

I think any reliability issues with BMW are probably overstated, like any product in the internet age. All models for years have had flaws but were considered reliable. My '83 RS nearly burnt valves in less than 5K due to a run of poor valve guide material. Fixed it and 15 years later, it was still running strong. Nowadays, one disgrumpled owner can post 1,257 times on varous forums and make anything look bad.

That said, I don't doubt that as things get more electronic and complicated, the reliabilty may go down. And I also don't doubt that the others are catching up!

[Capt. Blackadder]

On behalf of my 2003 single-spark R1150R with 25K miles, I'd like to submit the following:

• - Has never failed to start up.
  - Has never left me stranded anywhere.
  - Has never failed to deliver me to my destination.

More than I can say for either of my Japanese bikes.

Thank you.

[username]

austin PD is going BMW. the cops look way cooler on RTs than they do on harleys and kawasakis.

i think theyre happy so far, theyve been gradually converting bikes, so that if there was a problem with the BMW, they'd find it before totally changing over to it.