Anybody have a LINUX version recommendation?

Post by **CycleRob** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:55 am

Problem:
I NEED HELP!! (that's different!) I've HAD IT with Windows!!!!!! Every bloatware security update either slows it down even more or takes away some little function or priviledge. Right now IE crashes before loading, every time, and FireFox (the greatest!) is my only way to get on the NET. I'm looking at another WinXP re-install.

History:
I got Win98SE on my Gateway 733mhz P3 20GB HDD Desktop (rarely used), WinXP Home on my Sony VAIO 1.5mhz 30GB HDD LapTop (always used).

Question:
Can one of you Super-Geeks (I mean that in a flattering way!! . . . from one professional to another) steer me to a good version of LINUX for net surfing, lite video editing, picture editing and maybe a few games? I have absolutely no need for those office programs like data bases, word processors, or publishers. I guess I need a Multi-Media version. The website http://www.distrowatch.com was suggested as the provider of all, but there's too much Geek there for a Wrench like me to understand.

I believe I have to dump NTFS for the lower performance FAT32 on the HDD, is that correct? I have 1.5MB DSL so a NET D/L is feasable. I'm looking for a free version too (aren't they all). OK, that's too many statements, jokes and questions.

Can one of you Super-Geeks steer me to a good, Multi-Media, free version of LINUX ??

Post by **mcooperstein** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:12 am

I like Mandriva, formerly Mandrake. It's free if you download it yourself and burn your own cd's. It's relatively bulletproof, installs on most any hardware, and the basic system gives you plenty of software to dink with, including Firefox as the default browser. Go to http://www.mandriva.com and have a look see. I just downloaded the latest version about two weeks ago and installed it on a spare 'puter I have and it works great. Regarding your partitioning question...linux doesnt use NTFS, it uses a filesystem similar, but not ntfs. It does allow you to mount (RO) a NTFS file system if it's on another partition, or another drive. It also allows you to create a dual boot system if your hard drive is big enough, one system with windoze xp, the other, linux. Although you can do this on one physical drive, I reccomend doing this on two seperate drives until you understand what's going on in Linux with filesystems and dual booting, etc. Many a person has gotten the MBR wiped out and (mistakenly) thought they trashed their windoze partition and reformatted/reinstalled, when in reality it is a simple fix to restore the MBR. Anyway, back to Mandriva, it's built on the Red Hat kernel, so it's pretty stable. They even make a version that runs completly (albeit slow) off of a CD. You just insert the CD and boot from it. You might try downloading that first and burning it just to see what Mandriva is like. It has all the basic functionality built into it, including Firefox, X-Windows (ala KDE), and full hardware support (assuming you don't have any funky hardware). The link to the Mandriva download (all versions) is:
http://www.mandriva.com/en/download
"Mandriva One" is the one cd bootable Mandriva linux system. "Mandriva Linux Free" is the 3 CD installable system (the one I use). You will need to download these CD's then burn them. Each CD download comes in the form of an .ISO file. You will need something like Nero or Roxio EasyCD (or similar) in order to create an 'image' from a .ISO file. I'd be more then glad to help you if you need it...call me anytime, or send me email!

Mark

Post by **garylspolar** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:51 am

I found computing nirvana in OSX, Apple's Unix-based operating system that runs on all of their Macintoshes.

The deals at Apple just keep getting better, and a new 24" iMac is now available. Make the switch!

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/W ... ppleStore/

R4R&R · Post by **R4R&R** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:01 am

Rob, Gary's suggestion may be what you untimately want, Linux isn't for the non-techie. Unless you really [want to] understand the unix operating system, go with the Mac. I get the impression that you only want a free OS, not all new hardware, but I think re-installing XP would probably be easier in the long run over learning a linux/unix based OS.

Don't get me wrong, go ahead and try linux (if you have the time and an open mind) but it's not as easy as booting off the CD and doing a standard install, with autorun software installs.

Post by **jb44** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:55 am

Two free Linux versions with a graphical user interface (Windows-like) are:

Ubuntu
Linspire - just recently released a free version

Both offer versions that can be run from a CD (very slowly), so you can preview them without altering your computer.

One misconception is that you can run Linux with a low end computer. You can, using only the Command Line interface. But if you want to use the GUI, you will need as much processing power and memory as Windows.

In my opinion neither is ready-for-prime-time for the average desk-top user....many new terms and different ways of doing things.

Yet, if you have time to spare, it's kind of satisfying to run your computer with no reliance on MS or Apple.

ymmv

jb

NorseMan9 · Post by **NorseMan9** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:57 am

R4R&R wrote:Rob, Gary's suggestion may be what you untimately want, Linux isn't for the non-techie. Unless you really [want to] understand the unix operating system, go with the Mac. I get the impression that you only want a free OS, not all new hardware, but I think re-installing XP would probably be easier in the long run over learning a linux/unix based OS.

Don't get me wrong, go ahead and try linux (if you have the time and an open mind) but it's not as easy as booting off the CD and doing a standard install, with autorun software installs.

What he said! Distributions like Mandrake or Redhat make their $$ off of packaging the OS, device drivers, updates, etc, and they charge you for it. Then you have to find the applications and pray they work.

At the end of the day, it may be "free", but it sure isn't "hastle-free". Also, if you look at various web sites, you'll find the number of security updates published for Linux is much higher than for Windows. Mac is another story. Great systems, low security risks (although that's rising too!). The problem there is the number of applications available is puny relative to Windows or Linux.

Post by **owldaddy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:15 am

The new Mac's running on the Intel chip, also run all those Windoz programs if you really must. I wouldn't pollute my Mac with them however, after all, we buy our Mac's for the software, and the ease of use. not the hardware. Go down to the nearest CompUSA, and try it out, and have them run Bootcamp for you, so you can see how it works with the Microsoft stuff. I'd bet that once you try the Mac alone, running their Unix based OS, you'ld be hooked. Besides that Gateway is due to be retired. They just don't make them like that any more.........
Don

Post by **DSKYZD** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:08 am

Rob,

Just to throw my opinions out there:

1] Like John said switching to Linux is a serious commitment. Printing from unix and unix like operating systems has historically been tough, even with the new CUPS printing system used by the top distributions. Your particular printer, especially a printer/copier/scanner simply may not be compatible.

Also, all those neat free windows applications you love will not work unless under sort of windows emulation. Magellan Mapsend also doesn't run under Linux. Stuff like this is the sole reason I still run XP as my primary operating system. There is software available for Linux that gives you all the functionality (and sometimes more) available with Windows versions, but sometimes you are just tied in to a particular program that simply isn't supported under Linux.

You can do this switch on your existing computer hardware. Unlike the next option.

2] MacOS X is likely your best bet as an alternative operating system (OS). The drawback there is, as mentioned above, is the need to purchase new hardware. A Mac Mini is probably the cheapest one right now, others correct me if I'm wrong.

3] There are tons of Linux distros, and each distro can have a different look and feel depending on which window manager and desktop are installed. Part of the fun is trying out all the different ones, like screen savers in the Microsoft world.

Software dependencies can be a nightmare in the Linux world. You try to install a program only to find it either needs another program you don't have or a newer version of one do have, or even both. The FreeBSD ports tree is the best solution I've seen to this problem, but FreeBSD is not a hold your hand, visual installer, kind of operating system. MacOS X is built on top of FreeBSD.

Another well supported, highly polished distribution of Linux is Suse (soo-say)Linux:
http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/overview.html

4] For your video editing requirement I HIGHLY suggest you consider MacOS X. If you've done any video editing to date you know how much it taxes the processor and how much hard drive space it takes. Buying Mac or PC hardware to handle more than a little video editing is expensive.

Here's one of those recursively named open source projects for a Linux Video Editor:
http://lives.sourceforge.net/

Best of luck in whatever you decide.

DSKYZD

Post by **mcooperstein** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:07 am

Robby...it's not really all that bad. I would honestly say, the learning curve is about the same if you've never used a Mac or a Linux distro. Believe me, Linux has come a long, long way! Yeah, there are some compatability issues, some software deficiencies, but all things considered, it's a pretty robust OS. Now, if you're looking for cross compatability with Windows apps, then perhaps the Mac is the way to go, although you *can* run Windows apps on top of Linux using third party software (I do it all the time). The only exceptions are games, like Half Life 2 (for example) that use very low level windows system calls in order to achieve high graphics performance.

Still, if you have the money to spend, get a Mac by all means. If you don't, it doesnt hurt to download and try the standalone bootable CD version of Mandriva One. You'll immediately get a feel for what Linux is all about, with no risk, and no harm to your existing Windows system. It will however run slow, as it has to load *everything* from the CD, unlike an installed version which loads from the hard drive. Like I said before, if you think yoiu want to experiement with Linux, I'd be glad to help you. I have unlimited long distance phone service and I could walk you through an installation.

Hey guy, how's Atlanta? I missed you at the last beakster bash. I couldnt make it, as my commencement ceremony was that Saturday. After 35 years, I've finally got a college edumacation!! I'm a nurse, working cardiac intensive care in Kingsport TN. It's a lot different then writing software!!

Regards,
Mark
-----------------
member #3

Post by **yjleesvrr** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:26 am

Bear in mind that Mac OS's are not as vulnerable to viruses and other malware because hackers have not targeted Mac yet. As Mac gets more popular, many of the same problems will rear their head.

There is a misconception out there among some users that Mac is somehow invulnerable to malware. There are some advantages, but the primary one involves the fact that Mac flies below the radar of most hackers. Oh, and Mac software can crash too.

Having said that, I did buy my parents a Mac last year because they mainly surf the web to conduct financial transactions and read the news.

Mac is fine for most home users. However, if you make a living from technology and do a lot of programming or like to tinker with your hardware and OS, Mac has become more of a home user's computer. This statement is not meant to be a bust on anyone. We all do different things for a living obviously.

In the end, I recommend the Mac as well.

Post by **Boxer** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:11 pm

Man! This is an excellent thread!

I wish I understood it.

Hang in there Robbie. And when you get ready to go, just jump on and hold onto your hat. These guys know their stuff. They'll have you happy before you can say "interactive sequential access".

Post by **MattPie** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:30 pm

NorseMan9 wrote:What he said! Distributions like Mandrake or Redhat make their $$ off of packaging the OS, device drivers, updates, etc, and they charge you for it. Then you have to find the applications and pray they work.

For the enterprise versions from Redhat et al, you're right. But the majority of Linux Distributions don't charge for updates. For example: Ubuntu, Fedora, Slackware

.

Ubuntu is probably the easiest to use (in my opinion), but it doesn't have a ton of software pre-installed. You have to fiddle a little to get to the other packages. Fedora is pretty good.

One thing I recommend to all is: do your best to use software that 'comes' with the distribution, or can be downloaded from the repository. Going out and downloading stuff and installing it is a pain in the ass. (and I do this for a living).

At the end of the day, it may be "free", but it sure isn't "hastle-free". Also, if you look at various web sites, you'll find the number of security updates published for Linux is much higher than for Windows. .

While on the surface that's true, security updates for Linux include all the software that comes with Linux. In order to compare apples to apples (ooops, bad pun), rudabgas to rudabegas, you'd have to include the security patches for all you software (Adobe reader, Web server, Office, Music players, etc) in addition to Windows. I can tell you, it's easier to take care of Linux machines than it is to take care of Windows machines as far as patching goes.

(I've been a Windows, UNIX, and Linux System Admin professionally for 8 years, and started using Linux in 1995. It's vertainly easier to use LInux now than Slackware 3.3)

Post by **iowabeakster** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:56 pm

like said above, it will require some work, patience, and experience dealing with some of the compatibilitiy issues.

i have an old version of Red Hat on an old computer. It has been going without a crash for over 6 years! I only really use this computer to run one program though, an astronomy program, to compute locations of hundreds of thousands of asteroids and comets. how's that for GEEKY?

The real slick thing to do if you have the machine to handle it, it to run windows and linux simultaneously. You can then choose which operating system for the appropriate program you are using. Stuff like that I need my brother to help me with. Unless you can exchange wrenching for geeking with somebody, you may go in over your head.

For those against Microsoft. Look into OPEN OFFICE stuff instead Microsoft Office. Everyone likes FREE.

Post by **Shaman** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:09 pm

Ubuntu gets rave reviews and comes with Open Office preinstalled.

Really though, if you have broadband XP is hard to beat.
I have ran it for over 4 years and nary a blue screen.

For my hard use, I would say it does require at least a P1.5, 20G drive and 1G of ram. About what a lot of couple year old laptops have and most 4 year old desktops (except the ram - cheap). I wont be moving over to Vista anytime soon, and will probably go Dual Boot Apple once I sell a kidney to raise money for one. Friggin Apple pricing is crazy.

As a note, you dont have to thrash your system to try Linux out.
Get Partition Magic and create a partition for Linux and set up the Dual Boot.

Post by **CycleRob** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:28 pm

WOW
I feel GREAT.
I am really impressed with the thoroughness of the responses.
I don't ask for help much in a dedicated post like this, but all those SuperGeeks-2-the-rescue responses have saved me a whole lot of trouble and wasted effort. I've read them all slowly, taking it all in, literally hearing the voices of Cooper, Boxer, R4R&R & DSKYZD that I know from past BeaksterBash rides/meetings. I need more time to click the links and spend some hours taking even more data in with trial versions. My preliminary best choice decision so far is one I did not anticipate:
Stay with and Re-Install XP, for now.

RATS!

I'm doing with my computers just what I plan to do with my 2002 Gold R1150R, for the same reason . . . retirement income. Keep the bike (Sony VAIO) and soon replace the 4+ yr old battery (XP) --rather than-- replace it with the far superior, very expensive R1200R (Mac).

As much as the right thinking majority wants me to go to the better overall system, Apple, I can't justify it. Prioritized retirement income. A $1,400 OHC Honda powered 27 ton woodsplitter, maybe yes. A Mac and a lotta Mac software, No and No.
I would for all intents be abandoning the 3 useable computers and lots of Windows PC experience/knowledge (since DOS3.1 and Win ver 3.0) and purchased/downloaded software library. That's a HUGE sacrifice. My needs are mostly being met by the Hardware I have. I just wanted to change the OS to something better. Something less limiting. Something faster and more efficient. Something less maintenance intensive (Bi-Weekly !Critical !UpDate!). Something less annoying. I thought Linux was the way. It still may be the way.
Apparently Linux has many novice UN-friendly issues like selecting the right programs, installing/configuring them so they are fully functional and Linux's partial compatibility with PC software. Am I just overreacting?
I got a taste of of what you are talking about in configuring FireFox by carefully changing "a few things" using about:config and adding downloadable FireFox Extensions. My Right Clik menu now has -SaveAs-, -Properties-, and -FullScreen- below one another on the same pop-up. That's cool, and something Billy G wouldn't think of, let alone allow me to make it happen.

A few years ago mcooperstein gave me a Lindows OS 4.5.72 CDR of one of those bootable trial GUI OS's at a Bash. That Lindows CDR was clever, in that it created a RAMdrive in memory and ran it's key operational files from there. I remember it was pretty quick. It's that kind of creativity, efficiency and out-of-the-box thinking Microsoft is incapable of. Those programers prolly are still writing lots of Linux code now. Mark, I hear your generous offer to walk me thru things and will remember it. It works both ways, for your problems too.

Now I know how the recipients of my career Wrenchaholic advice feel. It's a new feeling . . . . and a good one, in that the "experts", all spoke to me, about my problem. This 50R family has a lot of experts in other OffTopic fields that sooner-or-later is of great value. The knowledge passed on is as good as money. I learned about a lot of things reading other people's questions, even something obscure like ordering 5,000 psi Cement for certain applications (Thanks BiffsR).

You guys are great.

Motorrad · Post by **Motorrad** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:27 pm

I dual-boot my PC at home; Windows XP for my wife, and SUSE SLES9 Linux for me. The best of both worlds.

Post by **garylspolar** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:03 pm

Rob:

Of course, you could just stop visiting those adult sites. They tend to clog your PC and slow it down.

Post by **CycleRob** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:25 pm

My slow downs usually happen after MS critical updates. There are over 157 so far. Another oppurtunity was when my Norton AV subscription expired and the Computer Associates AV CDR kept crashing on install because of a missing .DLL file. Then I D/L'd AVGFree to protect me until the CA AV install is ironed out. During "installations" I disabled ALL prgms and firewalls. That's prolly when something happened. There's a password on my BIOS -but- I don't remember ever wanting to PW protect it, let alone actually do that -and- NONE of my "!'ll never forget this" PW's work. Virus scans show nothing. I have a program to save, then flash erase the BIOS password but it has lots of warnings and disclaimers. I'll wait until my Desktop is hooked to the net before I take that risky step. Where is the motherboard CMOS battery hidden on a Sony VIAO NoteBook to erase the BIOS? Pretty deep is my guess.

On top of all this aggravation I have Honey-Do's, yard work,a retaining wall and cement patio construction project eating my time. It's all a 1 man operation. Eighty pound Quickcrete bags and cement blocks are a workout. The computer is playtime. It still is able to play, it just isn't as playful as it usta-was.

Post by **Shaman** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:31 am

Were you using Norton AV or Norton IS (internet suite)?
Norton AV updater is getting more and more glitchy all the time.
I still use NAV but might drop it on next renewel. They p*ssed me off when they let my 70 year old neighbor call in for a registration renewal on his older version, and 30 days later they stopped supporting the Updater for it.
I called as his 'son' and got him a brand new version sent out.

The Internet Suite bites the big one. It is a memory hog on the level of AOL. Which is another question, are you running AOL? Not AIM stand alone, but AOL? The AOL shell is a joke.

While not exactly a hacker myself, I've never heard of a virus or trojan that bothers to start or change a BIOS PW. And for system passwords, there are tons of ways to get around them. With an XP CD, you can change even the admin password before having to log in. And once in, you can change all the other user PWs anyway.

Post by **ProductUser** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:01 am

Something to think about re anti-virus software that will slow your system down. Most anti-virus software will scan files that are both read/saved to/from your hard drive. This can really slow down your system.

Have you tried to id what is taking all of your CPU?

Just a thought before you have to go through an install.

Tony